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Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

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Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#111

Post by cmurf »

leetcrew wrote: post #61
redis_mlc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misinformed. What I said is correct.

the part about preexisting conditions is completely wrong since the ACA. the person who replied to you is wrong about out-of-network services though. they seem to be describing a ppo plan. my high deductible plan is quite clear on the fact that out-of-network is not covered at all. doesn't even count towards the out-of-pocket max.

My plan will not even apply my out of pocket payments to the deductible. There are wide swaths of the U.S. where I'm 100% pay out of pocket for emergencies, heck, even inside my own state. Most people are completely unaware of how poorly they are covered when they travel on vacation, within their own country.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#112

Post by Cyph0n »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #107
Cyph0n wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on your deductible, though. If you’re on a HDHP, you could end up paying quite a bit more than 10% of the cost. But the expectation is that you “negotiate”, which is one the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of. Why can’t my insurance company do that? I already have a ton of stuff to handle, and now I have to worry about negotiating my health bills? It’s a joke.

Even on an HDHP, the discount you get by going through insurance is significant. For a recent bill, my insurance website shows: Total amount billed: $771 Plan discount: $699 Plan paid: $0 You may owe: $73 Because I haven't hit my deductible yet, the plan didn't pay for anything, but I got their negotiated pricing, so I'm only paying ~9.5% of the "billed rate". > But the expectation is that you “negotiate”, which is o…

In my case, an appointment with my GP was billed at $200. My insurance negotiated a discount of... $10. Based on this, my expectation is that this will only get worse with more expensive bills.

I suppose it varies by plan and provider? Regardless, dealing with medical bills is indeed a nightmare in the US. I am not looking forward to doing this all with children in the mix.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#113

Post by rad_gruchalski »

mgkimsal wrote: post #60
alexhutcheson wrote: post #16

The face values on medical bills in the US are like a bizarre joke - to a first approximation, no one ever pays them. Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. It's tougher for people without insurance - my understanding is that you can negotiate with the entity that sent you the bill to get significant reductions, but I don't have first-hand experience doing this.…

my experience is similar, but never 10%. more like final bills end up being ~60% of original. We had a $3400 ER bill for a cut hand in November. Our 'final total' after 'negotiated pricing' was closer to $2400 - approx 30% reduction, not 90%. (fantastic savings for $10k/year premiums!)

Jesus. How much? My mother’s THR would cost roughly €5.5k, if she WASN’T insured.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#114

Post by sumofi »

t0mas88 wrote: post #26
tetromino_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, does your health insurance cost >$600 per month for 1 person if your employer or government doesn't subsidize it (for example, if you are self-employed and earning more than minimum wage from it)? Because that's the case in the US.

Similar to Germany here: Insurance costs around € 100 per month per adult, kids under 18 are free. If you have a low income (below roughly 40k per year) you effectively pay less all the way down to zero (if your income is below about 14k per year), because the government pays part of your premium for you.

Mine costs around 700. But that's based on my salary. I hit the upper limit.

It is always reasonable and affordable.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#115

Post by vidarh »

tc313 wrote: post #44
Krokku wrote: post #8

You could buy 0.018 Tomahawk missiles for that or treat 54 people for every Tomahawk missile fired. All of the Tomahawk missiles fired since 2001 would have provided 119.000 people with free Corona treatment. I am thinking that countries with free healthcare care more about keeping their own people healthy than dropping missiles and misery on other countries people.

While your point is valid, it also illustrates how the U.S. subsidizes European entitlement programs by implicitly reducing those countries’ defense spending. If the U.S. were to cut back on defense, European countries would have to cut back on social welfare programs.

If the US was to cut back on defense, European countries probably would cut back on defense too. A large part of European spending goes to keep the US happy, and to defend against the fallout of US wars.

It's a price we pay for favourable trade arrangements, not something Europe would maintain on its own.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#116

Post by vidarh »

grecy wrote: post #84
alexhutcheson wrote: post #16

The face values on medical bills in the US are like a bizarre joke - to a first approximation, no one ever pays them. Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. It's tougher for people without insurance - my understanding is that you can negotiate with the entity that sent you the bill to get significant reductions, but I don't have first-hand experience doing this.…

> Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. Except when they get screwed. Friends are middle-class teachers in a good neighbourhood outside LA. Have been so for 18 years, have good health insurance. She has a baby (should be a joyous time), emergency C section required. The following morning the insurance company says $60k/day is too expensive, and they need to mov…

On one hand that's awful. On the other hand I can understand the insurance company balking at that price.

I'm in the UK. My ex considered private C section, and checked prices in the UK. We could have had it done by one of the top specialists in the country for ~12k GBP including the subsequent hospital stay.

In the end we chose not to, and our total costs were ~40 pounds/night for her to get a private room (NHS is allowed to charge for some extras) instead of sharing.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#117

Post by vidarh »

adrr wrote: post #73
erentz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re wrong. In Canada and most countries with government single payer insurance you can buy private supplemental insurance that covers more elective or less necessary things the single payer doesn’t. I haven’t seen a Medicare for All proposal that bans that.

"About 27.6% of Canadians' healthcare is paid for through the private sector. This mostly goes towards services not covered or partially covered by Medicare, such as prescription drugs, dentistry and optometry. Some 75% of Canadians have some form of supplementary private health insurance; many of them receive it through their employers.[63]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada If a quarter of spending…

By that argument there isn't any single payer healthcare systems in the world.

The reality is that when people talk about "single payer" they talk about systems where the essential services are insured by a single entity, not a system without any private healthcare, because none exists.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#118

Post by grecy »

vidarh wrote: post #116
grecy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. Except when they get screwed. Friends are middle-class teachers in a good neighbourhood outside LA. Have been so for 18 years, have good health insurance. She has a baby (should be a joyous time), emergency C section required. The following morning the insurance company says $60k/day is too expensive, and they need to mov…

On one hand that's awful. On the other hand I can understand the insurance company balking at that price. I'm in the UK. My ex considered private C section, and checked prices in the UK. We could have had it done by one of the top specialists in the country for ~12k GBP including the subsequent hospital stay. In the end we chose not to, and our total costs were ~40 pounds/night for her to get a private room (NHS is a…

Ugh. Having a baby should be a joyous time in life, and it shouldn't have anything to do with money.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#119

Post by vidarh »

grecy wrote: post #118
vidarh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand that's awful. On the other hand I can understand the insurance company balking at that price. I'm in the UK. My ex considered private C section, and checked prices in the UK. We could have had it done by one of the top specialists in the country for ~12k GBP including the subsequent hospital stay. In the end we chose not to, and our total costs were ~40 pounds/night for her to get a private room (NHS is a…

Ugh. Having a baby should be a joyous time in life, and it shouldn't have anything to do with money.

I agree. I briefly looked into moving to the US due to work, and dealing with US level healthcare was one of those things that just made it a lot less attractive.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#120

Post by anewhope »

jjoonathan wrote: post #63
alexhutcheson wrote: post #16

The face values on medical bills in the US are like a bizarre joke - to a first approximation, no one ever pays them. Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. It's tougher for people without insurance - my understanding is that you can negotiate with the entity that sent you the bill to get significant reductions, but I don't have first-hand experience doing this.…

Is begging (negotiation without leverage) a remotely reliable move for those without insurance or is it just an excuse dangled by apologists when in fact the reality is that it usually results in a very small discount unless you get the story to go viral?

Yes, generally your leverage is that you can just not pay.
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