Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides] • Hacker News Board

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#311

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:15 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #291

gnicholas wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? An idle business can only distribute cash for so long before it runs out.

But again, follow the money. Where is that exact dollar that would have gone to that business had there not been any coronavirus? The economy is a circular river system. If it stops one day, there is going to be areas of drought in places, as well as huge reservoirs protected by dams. Money does not disappear, it only moves. You lose money on stocks, someone else on the other side of the world made money with their s…

Where is all the stuff that we use in our day to day lives going to come from while the economy is 'paused'? Who is going to make the food, distribute the food, sell the food, drive the trucks, etc?

There are two sides of our society; production and consumption. If we aren't producing, how are we continuing to consume?

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#312

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:17 AM UTC

zouhair wrote: post #86

testfoobar wrote: post #38

The virus is terrible. But our solution could turn into an economic catastrophe. It simply isn't possible to shut down the economy and then pay people, businesses to sit idle for an undetermined amount of time. The solution is aggressive, continuous testing so that people can feel safe going back out. 1. Make hundreds and millions of the rapid tests available. 2. Deploy them to every business, every institution. 3. T…

> It simply isn't possible to shut down the economy and then pay people, businesses to sit idle for an undetermined amount of time. Why not? This is a matter of survival. If the economic system breaks because of one pandemic that will last less than a year maybe that economic system needs to die and be replaced by something more solid and useful for most.

Ok, you can pay them money, but what are they going to BUY with that money? If people aren't working to produce things, there isn't going to be anything to buy with the money we pay people. That is how you get runaway inflation.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#313

Post by Abishek_Muthian » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:21 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #214

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's Red Cross supposedly advised Italy yesterday that 'total economic shutdown'[1] is the only way to contain the COVID-19 situation in the country now. It all comes to what part of the curve the country is now, the choice being total lockdown incl. economic shutdown vs aggressive testing. Considering US lapsed on aggressive measures in the beginning and that proper test kits are just being flown in from Italy[2]…

> total economic shutdown seems to be the only option left That's quite the overreaction. Italy found that among fatalities the median age is over 80 (older than the average lifespan of an Italian man). 99% of fatalities were among people with a prior illness. About 50% of the deaths were people suffering from at least three other illnesses. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-tho... To put it an…

WHO director specifically mentioned in his briefing yesterday that 'Young people are not invincible and that data from many countries show number of cases below age It's not just fatalities, hospitalisation i.e. exhausting healthcare facilities is the primary concern with COVID-19.

There is no guarantee that young people wouldn't make up high mortality list in a poor country with high younger population, rich countries should get their acts together to stop that from happening in vulnerable countries.

[1]https://youtu.be/6BOKgSCPD4E?t=32

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#314

Post by twomoretime » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

hyperion2010 wrote: post #240

twomoretime wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't there multiple existing labs all over the country who do this regularly? Are these tests made in small batches or something? Do you need to grow viral cultures? What exactly is the limit here and why can't a typical lab just double production in a few weeks by doubling it's hardware?

You don't have to culture anything (if we did we might as well just give up). We use PCR to amplify a known section of the viral genome. With the oligo production capacity in this country alone we could synthesize enough primers test everyone in the country 10 times in a couple of days. That is not the limiting reagent. The limit is either sample prep or sample collection. Actually running the amplification shouldn't…

Yes I am also cynical about the situation. There is something not insurmountable standing in the way.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#315

Post by sho » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:24 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #286

dwaltrip wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Businesses exist to make a profit for their shareholders. It is an insidious and morally bankrupt myth that this is the only purpose of a company.

I don't know how you do your financial planning, but when I invest my money, I expect to see a return. I expect most folks do. Everything else falls out of that.

> when I invest my money, I expect to see a return

If that return is at the cost of the stability and welfare of society at large then sorry, but no. No-one "deserves" a return and nothing happens in a vacuum. Larger society comes first, full stop. Seems this is a lesson we humans forget, and need to collectively and painfully relearn, every few decades.

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#316

Post by nnx » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:28 AM UTC

fl4bfl4b wrote: post #12

Better solution: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YbtJGn7ida2IYNgwCFk3Sjhs... We can shelter-in-place as long as needed. And no businesses go under, and no one loses their home.

Pausing all financial obligations seems so obvious, why hasn't it been done and barely in the public discourse yet?

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#317

Post by vkou » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:34 AM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #287

ramblenode wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French Revolution? Arguably the Russian Revolution if you accept the USSR as a step up from feudalism.

> French Revolution? Didn't even last a decade until they got themselves an emperor. > Arguably the Russian Revolution if you accept the USSR as a step up from feudalism. Considering that the USSR killed orders of magnitude more of its own people than feudalism under the Czars ever did, I'm going to vote "no" on this one.

It also brought an unprecedented amount of economic development to what was an incredibly backwards country.

Not that it's a model to imitate. Although some folks in this thread sound rather ready to sacrifice millions of people, for the sake of keeping the economy limping along...

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#318

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:36 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #286

dwaltrip wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Businesses exist to make a profit for their shareholders. It is an insidious and morally bankrupt myth that this is the only purpose of a company.

I don't know how you do your financial planning, but when I invest my money, I expect to see a return. I expect most folks do. Everything else falls out of that.

[deleted]

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#319

Post by SamReidHughes » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:36 AM UTC

ivalm wrote: post #272

SamReidHughes wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All debt is an alternative to raising capital by selling shares and diluting ownership. It doesn’t matter what order you do it in, and sometimes you get a good deal on a loan.

There is a difference between debt as a way to raise capital for growth vs debt as a way to return unearned money to shareholders.

Who do you think is loaning the money?

Re: Effect of economic crisis on America’s small businesses [slides]

#320

Post by RHSeeger » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 6:42 AM UTC

whb07 wrote: post #228

yibg wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can be a wide range of assumption. Anywhere from "all the people we know about are all that are infected" to "everyone else in the world is already infected". Regardless, the death tolls kind of speak for themselves. What's more, the increase in death toll too. In Italy alone there are over 4000 dead, with a few hundred more a day now. Italy has a population of 60 million. Extrapolating even the current death c…

I’ll give you a couple reasons why Italy is the mess it is: 1. Significantly older population 2. Shitty healthcare For context many years ago, the state of Ohio in the US had more MRI machines than all of Canada combined. It’s very possible that due to budget constraints and other things, they have terrible health infrastructure. Why do we believe that all nations are equal? I can take a look at the Olympics and noti…

As I understand it, one of the first cities in Italy to have problems keeping up with healthcare .... has some of the best health care in Europe.