New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services • Hacker News Board

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#191

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #23

ilamont wrote: post #6

There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

Yeah, but people aren't machines. We will absolutely get upset when our loved ones die because a minority of fools decided their party was more important than our familys' continued survival. Analogy to some stupid servers is the worst way to analyze this situation.

Mandatory breakup of large groups is actually the lighter of the tools the government could use here. Intentionally endangering other people's lives is usually punished by jail, and even unintentional but reckless endangerment can be fine- or jail-worthy.

Wash your hands and stay away from each other, people.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#192

Post by icelancer » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #95

At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the l…

>> The damage to the economy is already here

You think it can't get worse?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#193

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

aalleavitch wrote: post #163

circlefavshape wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely sick to death of outrage culture, and I thoroughly agree - in fact I think the outrage probably encourages the bravado of people who are engaging in risky behaviour atm

A great way to get rid of outrage culture, btw, would be to get rid of all the systems generating the outrage.

So "burn down the Internet, all the way back to the BBS days, and burn those down too."

Seems like overkill.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#194

Post by lookdangerous » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

virmundi wrote: post #141

ilamont wrote: post #6

There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.

Why is the damage bad? Why not thin the population? Think about the looming stress due to the boomers living longer. If they die, housing becomes affordable. Assets move to the younger generation. Debts get canceled because their is no one left in the estate to pay. Think of this as a fire that thins the forest. New growth will come up.

And all of these 'upsides' will occur regardless in a few years. Why hasten economic benefit at the cost of human life? Economic benefit is only of benefit to human being so it's not an arguable equation.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#195

Post by redisman » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

fiftyfifty wrote: post #149

vehementi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A month? Wouldn't it be more like 1-2 weeks?

The problem we are going to have in the US is some states are responding better than others. NY looks bad right now because they are testing a lot. States like Florida, Louisiana and Georgia are already in double digit deaths each and don't have the positive cases to account for them. Going forward the rate of deaths will be far more indicative of what's happening than just the positive cases and that is going to con…

As you can see with WA, deaths is not a perfect metric either. Florida also has a lot of retirement homes and one getting hit will skew that metric a lot.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#196

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

bosie wrote: post #101

pmoriarty wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially > Then people won't take the rules seriously. What should the government do to these people? Arrest them? Already there are news headlines saying "US jails begin releasing prisoners to stem Covid-19 infections" [1][2] and from that article, specifically relating to New York: "New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Wednesday tha…

> Arrest them? Why not? Couldn't you postpone the prison time for a later point in time? Or make them pay fees right away (and a high fee).

Homeless? Quarantine in a hotel. Not homeless and income or wealth Not homeless and income or wealth > 100k? 1% annual gross income or net wealth (greater of both) per occurrence with a 1% daily compounding interest rate of the principal amount until paid in full. If third incident mandatory minimum of 5 years imprisonment and $1,000,000 fine or 50% wealth whichevers greater. Non payment prevents release.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#197

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #161

point78 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the only time it's appropriate for outrage culture and to focus on the negative is exactly right now. Shame and tell everyone whenever possible to stay the fuck inside because those are going to be the people that make you stay in lockdown for 6 months instead of 2. Otherwise this will be 10x worse in the US

It appears Seattle may have "flattened the curve" too much as new cases have flatlined. Sounds good!? But healthy young people aren't building up antibodies. Which means when we end social distancing, the virus will start spreading just like it did before. The goal here isn't to prevent everyone from getting it. The goal is to slowly build up heard immunity, in a way that doesn't overly burden the healthcare system,…

It is likely possible to engineer a vaccine for this virus. If we can social distance long enough to get that out, people's lives are saved.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#198

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #138

munificent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

> But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. The problem with "outrage culture" isn't the outrage; it's the target of the outrage. This is real stuff, consequential, non-trivial. It's good to be outraged when people behave outrageously. It's not so good when what you're trying to do is get a stranger fired for a tweet you could easil…

Ignoring tweets, it turns out, made the situation worse over time.

As the Internet just becomes another part of the real world (down from the lofty "alternate universe" it was imagined it would be in the cyberpunk era), I'm 100% on board with people having real-world consequences for bad online behavior.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#199

Post by larosalia » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

carlosdp wrote: post #144

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #95

At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the l…

I don't think authoritarian tactics like that, while effective, would fly in the US. I for one would not be ok with that. Once the government takes that authority once, who knows what they end up doing with it when they see they can get away with it.

who cares abt you though

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#200

Post by redisman » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

sodafountan wrote: post #147

carlosdp wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think authoritarian tactics like that, while effective, would fly in the US. I for one would not be ok with that. Once the government takes that authority once, who knows what they end up doing with it when they see they can get away with it.

I agree, as alarming as it sounds I think we'd need something much higher than a 2% fatality rate to justify completely giving up our civil liberties. If anything it should be the elderly and vulnerable that are forced to isolate while the rest of society slows down for awhile, but even that I think is too egregious at this point.

You're not gonna get 2% fatality rate without serious quarantine measures. That rate assumes you can get all the serious cases to the ICU and into a ventilator. If you let it grow exponentially, we need to start imagining what is the fatality rate basically without any hospital care. Scaling hospitals will be absolutely impossible once the cases start heading into six and seven figures.