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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

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Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#161

Post by nostromo »

point78 wrote: post #143
munificent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

Probably the only time it's appropriate for outrage culture and to focus on the negative is exactly right now. Shame and tell everyone whenever possible to stay the fuck inside because those are going to be the people that make you stay in lockdown for 6 months instead of 2. Otherwise this will be 10x worse in the US

It appears Seattle may have "flattened the curve" too much as new cases have flatlined.

Sounds good!? But healthy young people aren't building up antibodies.

Which means when we end social distancing, the virus will start spreading just like it did before.

The goal here isn't to prevent everyone from getting it. The goal is to slowly build up heard immunity, in a way that doesn't overly burden the healthcare system, and to hopefully learn some new treatments along the way.

https://depts.washington.edu/uwviro/

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#162

Post by mentat »

nostromo wrote: post #89
mattnewton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this will open the door for NYC to fully "shelter in place" lockdown, however.

Yeah, they're boiling the frog. Each incremental step is normalized over a few days, and then there's a new, stricter mandate.

Except the virus is doubling over those days so completely ineffective.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#163

Post by aalleavitch »

circlefavshape wrote: post #136
munificent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

I am absolutely sick to death of outrage culture, and I thoroughly agree - in fact I think the outrage probably encourages the bravado of people who are engaging in risky behaviour atm

A great way to get rid of outrage culture, btw, would be to get rid of all the systems generating the outrage.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#164

Post by bananabreakfast »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #15
ryanmccullagh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, does the state and federal goverment have the power to control the movement of people? Does the state have the power to control my movement from my own home to the end of the street for my daily walk?

Of course they have the power: they have the guns. That's not the real question; the real questions are 1) whether the populace will tolerate it, and how much; 2) whether the state's forces will willingly open fire on intolerant citizens; 3) whether the state chooses to use the power, whether legal or not.

You mean like they did at Kent State?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#165

Post by r00fus »

virmundi wrote: post #146
r00fus wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because a quick spike wouldn't have any outside effects at all. You sound as if you're ok with millions of people dying miserably. You think a long period of decreased economy is bad, the spike might cause outright panics and armed unrest. We can print dollars, we can't resurrect the dead.

Why not make the death fast? The argument is for euthanasia not a poor life to slowly die.

It's not "death fast", it's: 1) way more deaths and a complete congestion of medical services vs. 2) less deaths, manageable medical service and a period of painful stagnation for the economy.

If you get critically sick or injured (not COVID19 related) and hospitals are overflowing, you will suffer when no one can see you because of COVID19 cases.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#166

Post by kevindong »

nostromo wrote: post #89
mattnewton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this will open the door for NYC to fully "shelter in place" lockdown, however.

Yeah, they're boiling the frog. Each incremental step is normalized over a few days, and then there's a new, stricter mandate.

> Each incremental step is normalized over a few days

So far, the "temperature" has been increased every 1-2 days.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#167

Post by Veen »

aalleavitch wrote: post #163
circlefavshape wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely sick to death of outrage culture, and I thoroughly agree - in fact I think the outrage probably encourages the bravado of people who are engaging in risky behaviour atm

A great way to get rid of outrage culture, btw, would be to get rid of all the systems generating the outrage.

That assumes outrage is motivated primarily by flawed systems and not the psychological and social benefits that accrue to those who express the most outrage. It may also be true that outrage is not the best way to solve systemic problems.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#168

Post by stan_rogers »

guenthert wrote: post #151
point78 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the only time it's appropriate for outrage culture and to focus on the negative is exactly right now. Shame and tell everyone whenever possible to stay the fuck inside because those are going to be the people that make you stay in lockdown for 6 months instead of 2. Otherwise this will be 10x worse in the US

No, it won't. If people mingle and fail to "flatten the curve", the whole mess will be over sooner, albeit with more dead old people. If you believe you can starve the virus of hosts, you're delusional.

As an "old people", I thank you for your consideration and concern.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#169

Post by nostromo »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #159
guenthert wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it won't. If people mingle and fail to "flatten the curve", the whole mess will be over sooner, albeit with more dead old people. If you believe you can starve the virus of hosts, you're delusional.

Old people are not the only ones dying.

Data from an Italian study:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-tho...

Median age is 80.5. That's actually near the life expectancy of an Italian male.

99% of fatalities were among people with a prior illness.

About half of the deaths were people suffering from three or more other illnesses.

To put it very bluntly, a lot of the folks dying from COVID-19 were already dying. COVID-19 is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#170

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

nostromo wrote: post #161
point78 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the only time it's appropriate for outrage culture and to focus on the negative is exactly right now. Shame and tell everyone whenever possible to stay the fuck inside because those are going to be the people that make you stay in lockdown for 6 months instead of 2. Otherwise this will be 10x worse in the US

It appears Seattle may have "flattened the curve" too much as new cases have flatlined. Sounds good!? But healthy young people aren't building up antibodies. Which means when we end social distancing, the virus will start spreading just like it did before. The goal here isn't to prevent everyone from getting it. The goal is to slowly build up heard immunity, in a way that doesn't overly burden the healthcare system,…

I am not so sure herd immunity is a goal. The idea is indeed to avoid overrunning the healthcare system, with an expectation that we can get the majority of the population successfully through the system. It's not well-known that we'll build even short term immunity, let alone long to medium term immunity.

If new cases flatline, that's good! If we can avoid everyone getting it, that's even better! If the globe can get a handle on things, we don't need to solely consider worst-case scenarios.

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