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GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

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Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#291

Post by yariik »

vinay427 wrote: post #287
malberto wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES! NK never bombed my country. Please grow up and realize that you can not claim anything as long as your country act as a terrorist

Thankfully, that isn't how the world actually works. People are able to understand that any country, including the US, is composed of people who work on different things with different views, and that there are things US entities still say and do that can be valuable and trusted.

> there are things US entities still say and do that can be valuable and trusted

Yeah, sure. For some reason, the US enjoys some special privileges when it comes to the international politics.

How long has the Russiahoax been going, five years? For five years, every single media outlet in the US attacks attacks my country and blames it of all sorts of criminal activity, while not a single piece or evidence has been presented.

And for some reason, most of the Americans that I've talked to don't see any problem with that and won't call their government russophobic, so much for your "different views."

Why should anybody believe anything said by an American anymore?

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#293

Post by superbm »

woofcat wrote: post #69
Joker_vD wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, the idea is that those "Crimean or Iranian" would get pissed off at their government and revolt. Which, as the practice shows, doesn't quite work taht way. They get pissed off at the sanctioning government as well, and are less likely to believe that that government actually worries about their interests and rights and not, say, as using them as a free battering ram against their current government/regime…

However what's the alternative? Country 'A' would like to build a weapon of mass destruction. Country 'B' asks them nicely to not do that. They ignore the request and continue building the technology. At that point you can either do the following: - Ignore it and hope they don't destabilize the region / world. - Economic and Trade sanctions to slow down their progress, and impact the economy of the country. - Physica…

Actually, it's United States who violated the agreement with Iran. Iran not only complied with the nuclear agreement, but they even overdelivered and reduced enrichment below the allowed limit (and on other requirements as well)

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#294

Post by nulbyte »

natfriedman wrote: post #113

Hi HN, I'm the CEO of GitHub. Flagging this account was obviously a terrible mistake, and I apologize to anyone who was affected by it. We're investigating why it occurred and will make changes to make sure it doesn't happen again. I am glad that we restored access to the account in less than an hour after Aurelia filed their appeal. For context on why any account flagging is ever necessary, unfortunately, every comp…

> And US sanctions as written do not allow us to provide commercial services or services which could be used commercially to sanctioned countries.

This statement is so wide-sweeping as to be patently false. Some sanctions target specific activities. Others target specific entities that may or may not be entire countries. Many sanctions do not apply to information and communication services. To make such a wide statememt as you did suggests you're oversimplifying to placate the masses. Either way, not a good look.

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#295

Post by M2Ys4U »

epse wrote: post #278
miduil wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub, DROP ICE!

I'm sorry, I understand why you don't like the ICE, but why should they start "randomly" arbitration what can and can't appear on their platform? That's just a massive can of worms nobody wants to open

I think denying access to organisations that are EXPRESSLY DESIGNED to violate human rights is a good enough reason.

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#296

Post by vinay427 »

yariik wrote: post #291
vinay427 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, that isn't how the world actually works. People are able to understand that any country, including the US, is composed of people who work on different things with different views, and that there are things US entities still say and do that can be valuable and trusted.

> there are things US entities still say and do that can be valuable and trusted Yeah, sure. For some reason, the US enjoys some special privileges when it comes to the international politics. How long has the Russiahoax been going, five years? For five years, every single media outlet in the US attacks attacks my country and blames it of all sorts of criminal activity, while not a single piece or evidence has been p…

The easy answer: "most of the Americans that I've talked to" vs. "anything said by an American"

I'll expand: In the country I live in, a country often touted as very highly developed, there are still a lot of people that have weirdly (uninformed) nationalistic views about certain topics probably due to some oddities of history. This is the case in every single country I've traveled to or lived in. No one is advocating for designing global policy on Russia based on the views of the average American. That has little to do with trusting Americans (or Britons, or any other nationality of a place with a violent history) on other specific issues.

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#297

Post by ben509 »

mullingitover wrote: post #199
ben509 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Github is acting as agents of the USG, they're bound by 1A. Here, there's a direct instruction from the government telling them to do this thing. But I'm not sure there's a 1A case against this form of trade sanctions. The government isn't saying Iranians (as an example) can't write code, or that US citizens can't write code. They're saying they Iranian citizens can't use a US service. It's being denied as an econ…

So does that mean Iranians could just mirror the repo, someone in the US could mirror that repo, and then push the Iranians' commits to GitHub unimpeded by the sanctions?

In practice, of course they could unless Github specifically tracks that kind of thing.

I'm no expert on sanctions law, I mostly know what I do from having read all the compliance stuff at work.

There's a lot of law that's effectivey enforced by business. All the alcohol prohibition for minors, for instance, is enforced by your local bar checking ID.

And many laws aren't intended to have perfect enforcement.

Take taxes. Banks won't, for instance, send a 1099 to the IRS if you have a small balance, even if you earned some interest. And there's no one tracking your cash income, but if you had a large amount and got audited you could be in trouble.

Likewise, sanctions aren't meant to be perfect, the intent is to hamper the target nation's economy by restricting most trade.

So the law always has to be black and white as to whether a thing is illegal. It then deals with the "grey" part through how it enforces it. Here I'd observe it's not monitored by a deputized business, and the executive won't prioritize it.

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#298

Post by animalnewbie »

nulbyte wrote: post #294
natfriedman wrote: post #113

Hi HN, I'm the CEO of GitHub. Flagging this account was obviously a terrible mistake, and I apologize to anyone who was affected by it. We're investigating why it occurred and will make changes to make sure it doesn't happen again. I am glad that we restored access to the account in less than an hour after Aurelia filed their appeal. For context on why any account flagging is ever necessary, unfortunately, every comp…

> And US sanctions as written do not allow us to provide commercial services or services which could be used commercially to sanctioned countries. This statement is so wide-sweeping as to be patently false. Some sanctions target specific activities. Others target specific entities that may or may not be entire countries. Many sanctions do not apply to information and communication services. To make such a wide statem…

Or maybe he's just paraphrasing in simple terms things his lawyers explained to him because he doesn't want to go write 20 pages of specifics?

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#299

Post by andrepd »

blanche_56 wrote: post #234
relaunched wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://m.imgur.com/a/grRvEWt

Well that does seem hysterical. I wonder what kind of overlap exists between those who have been panicking about "Russian hackers" for the last four years and those who now believe that reluctance in allowing remote Russian developers access to potentially sensitive or valuable US code bases is "racist".

>remote Russian developers access to potentially sensitive or valuable US code bases

What do you mean by this exactly?

Re: GitHub shuts off access to Aurelia repository, citing trade sanctions

#300

Post by Sephr »

tedmiston wrote: post #260
Sephr wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that trade regulations such as ITAR apply to publicly-available open source software? I do not¹, and it appears that your employees do not believe this either. GitHub is currently hosting multiple GPS implementations² that are clearly against this line in your ToS, in addition to also being against ITAR by not implementing speed limits for missiles: "GitHub may not be used for purposes prohibited under…

ITAR undeniably applies to software. Whether it's open source or not is irrelevant. ITAR software cannot legally live on GitHub.com in any case -- it doesn't matter if the repos are public or private. [But a GitHub Enterprise install (self-hosted version only) can be compliant.] I'm confused by your request for the company's stance, since it's not something up for debate... there is no room for them to take a stance…

Are you sure about that? Publicly-available open source software can be exempt from ITAR according to this page: https://www.unr.edu/sponsored-projects/compliance/export-con...
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