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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#251

Post by markovbot »

untog wrote: post #90
markovbot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the upcoming "SMS Receiver API" and "Contacts API"? Those look absolutely terrifying, and as soon as Chrome implements it, every shitty ass newspaper that is currently refusing to display their articles in private browsing windows will refuse to display their articles unless you fork over your contact list.

Have you actually read anything about either of those APIs or are you just reacting to the names? The Contacts API does not allow unrestricted access to your Contacts. It presents a picker for you to choose a contact. The SMS Receiver API is not universal access to SMS messages, it is access to one specific message and only one that contains your domain name in the message text. Both have very obvious utility to user…

> Have you actually read anything about either of those APIs or are you just reacting to the names?

I admit, this is exactly what I did :(

appreciate the info

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#252

Post by dgellow »

untog wrote: post #79
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

> Then you're out of step with what users want these days.

Two things:

1. The person you respond to is also a user, no reason to dismiss their point of view

2. I don’t think browsers asked users for what they want! It’s a bit disingenuous to say “that’s what users want” when the communication is one way only.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#253

Post by oblib »

gowld wrote: post #113
ironmagma wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people still download and run apps every day. Some even prefer it. I doubt that the cause of this migration was due to security concerns -- since when are app developers particularly concerned about the quality of the security controls imposed on them? I suspect the shift was more due to ease of access, both by the user and for the developer, helped along by easier compatibility.

Users care about security (at least a lot). That's why they don't install every random app that they could.

Well, my wife is an exception to that. She installs all kinds of crap apps on her phone.

And we got our phones through our daughter who works at Verizon, so when my wife moved from an Android to an iPhone they called me up and asked for my iCloud password which I, like a dumbass, gave them.

I just checked and I've got four more bullshit apps on my phone I need to delete :D

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#254

Post by rictic »

badsectoracula wrote: post #212
modeless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If operating systems had ever provided security strong enough to run untrusted code, we wouldn't have needed to. It's really a failing of operating system security. Even today no operating system provides an application sandbox as strong and versatile as the browser. Platforms have fallen back on walled gardens (app stores) with centralized control of all code execution to compensate for the deficiencies of their sec…

The whole security angle is an after-the-fact rationalization and the vast majority of users (not developers, users ) never cared much about it - as anyone in the IT department of pretty much every company can tell you (again, users, not developers, not sysops, not admins, but regular end users). The real reason we see so many web apps is that the decision on what technology to use for an application is largely somet…

Have you looked at the network traffic or behavior of most native apps? Continuous monitoring and cloud-based state are the norm everywhere, and for the same reasons.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#256

Post by distances »

superasn wrote: post #229
hombre_fatal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No uBlock, no dev console, no network tab. Completely opaque. An install step just to order a pizza. Shareable URLs/deeplinks. It's a freak of luck that we have the web, an app environment with a built-in dev console and actual customization. Just think how much it contrasts with the black box of native apps and with what large companies actually want. I'm in no rush to throw it away.

Also no ctrl+f find. One of the many reasons I use Amazon via browser and not app. Also open link in new window so you don't lose state, compare easily and much much more.

Amazon's app, at least on Android, is anyway so bad it's almost surreal. Massive lags without any indication of progress or indication that the app even accepted the input.

Now that I think of it, it feels like a bad website shipped as an app. Which it probably is.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#257

Post by antibland »

For anyone wondering how well supported these features are globally (from caniuse):

prefers-color-scheme: 80.85%

prefers-reduced-motion: 84.05%

Payment Request API: 90.06%

Web Share API: 49.25%

Push API: 78.57%

Service Workers: 94.42%

Web/native app install banners: 68.19%

Get Installed Related Apps API: Not launched, 0%

WebXR: 61.83%

Picture-in-Picture: 85.01%

Media Session API: 66.31%

Chrome Sender API: 64.75%

AirPlay: Unknown

Force Touch API: 55.74%

AR Quick Look: Unknown

GamePad API: 95.18%

WebUSB API: 65.27%

Web Bluetooth API: 68.6%

Web Locks API: 67.43%

Keyboard Lock: 30.47%

Generic Sensor API: 67.43%

Credential Management API: 70.86%

Clipboard API: 70.86%

Presentation API: 15.24% full support, 80.14% partial

Screen Orientation API: 76.16%

getUserMedia camera selection: 93.48%

Pointer Lock (Mouse Lock): 55.06%

Theme Color: 37.39%

Vibration API: 77.13%

Web Coffee API: Unknown

Battery Status API: 72.36%

Page Visibility API: 97.44%

Web Speech API: 92.88%

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#258

Post by onion2k »

dgellow wrote: post #252
untog wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

> Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Two things: 1. The person you respond to is also a user, no reason to dismiss their point of view 2. I don’t think browsers asked users for what they want! It’s a bit disingenuous to say “that’s what users want” when the communication is one way only.

Try talking to some developer relations people from the Google Web team, Mozzila, Microsoft etc. They're all very receptive to feature requests. It absolutely isn't a one way street.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#259

Post by vincnetas »

untog wrote: post #79
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

And because of that only megacorp is capable of developing web browser for "free".

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#260

Post by leadingthenet »

AgentME wrote: post #56
Arcsech wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like we shouldn't have tortured a document transfer system until it was able to run full-on applications.

Would it really be better if we didn't evolve the web, and we had more OS-specific unsandboxed applications and greater fragmentation between OSes (and a stronger incentive for everyone to stick to one OS, like Windows) instead?

Yes. OS-specific native apps are generally a much better experience for the user.
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