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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#111

Post by gowld »

untog wrote: post #79
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

What's wrong with native app? You can delete it when you are done with it, just like you can close a browser tab when you are done with the "entire" web app you downloaded.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#112

Post by cosmotic »

untog wrote: post #79
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

Share API isn't needed for sharing content, copy and paste worked better than share api and it was around decades ago.

About what percent of push notification requests do you accept? I think my percentage is 0, and the number of requests is high tens if not hundreds. I don't trust browser notifications at all.

Here's some stats: https://www.businessofapps.com/marketplace/push-notification...

Opt-in rates are around 65%, open rate is between 1 and 10%, I suspect some percentage of those opt-in rates were unintentional or coerced and some percentage of those opens were click bate or accident. so I think it's safe to assume a significant portion of the opt-ins and notifications were desired-not.

Based on this information, I would consider notifications undesirable.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#113

Post by gowld »

ironmagma wrote: post #71
modeless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If operating systems had ever provided security strong enough to run untrusted code, we wouldn't have needed to. It's really a failing of operating system security. Even today no operating system provides an application sandbox as strong and versatile as the browser. Platforms have fallen back on walled gardens (app stores) with centralized control of all code execution to compensate for the deficiencies of their sec…

But people still download and run apps every day. Some even prefer it. I doubt that the cause of this migration was due to security concerns -- since when are app developers particularly concerned about the quality of the security controls imposed on them? I suspect the shift was more due to ease of access, both by the user and for the developer, helped along by easier compatibility.

Users care about security (at least a lot). That's why they don't install every random app that they could.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#114

Post by detaro »

asjw wrote: post #110
untog wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

If they were OSes they would have a kernel and user land You would have ring0 and ring3 You could decide what to install or what remove In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default More than an OS is a disaster waiting to happen

> In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default

Several critical or potential annoying functions have opt-in prompts by default, unlike your typical desktop OS.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#115

Post by asjw »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #83
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then turn them off. All these things landed because users _do_ use them. I 100% want web share, page visibility, usb, and native file system, for instance, because the browser has become a convenient replacement for a bunch of playgroup/PoC/testbed applications that I might have used 10 years ago.

There are people who want to be spied by social networks to have a pair of free shoes and post pictures of them online

It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do for society

Browsers have gone far beyond their purpose in an inorganic way

It's like if my alarm suddenly started making coffee, toasts, working as remote and the new planned feature was the ability to warm itself up and iron my shirts

And it would still be a fraction of what browsers do today

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#117

Post by cj »

cosmotic wrote: post #112
untog wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

Share API isn't needed for sharing content, copy and paste worked better than share api and it was around decades ago. About what percent of push notification requests do you accept? I think my percentage is 0, and the number of requests is high tens if not hundreds. I don't trust browser notifications at all. Here's some stats: https://www.businessofapps.com/marketplace/push-notification... Opt-in rates are around 6…

You consider them undesirable, but they are a critical feature for many applications.

Specifically, chat. More specifically... support agents providing live chat support. (And for that matter, end users interacting via chat appreciate push notifications on reply)

Without browser push notifications, there really isn’t a good alternative.

The fact that opt in rates are close to 50% is probably a good thing! It means that browsers aren’t using dark patterns to trick people in to opting into things they don’t want.

I would 100% agree with you if opting out were difficult. But at least Chrome’s implementation makes it very easy to decide which sites I want push notifications from, I really can’t think of any downside given the easy opt out.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#118

Post by josh3736 »

GrazeMor wrote: post #66

The credential management api is super annoying. Many websites now have a very annoying sign in with google dialog whenever I visit them and there's no way I can find to disable it.

The Credential Management API is more like a API in to the browser's password manager. A page can save a username/password/token into secure storage (which the browser can sync to your other devices) and later retrieve it. This is nice because we don't have to rely on autofilling form field heuristics.

You're thinking of Google's One Tap, which is just a JS snippet that publishers include on their page, and has nothing to do with browser APIs. (The OP shows a screenshot of One Tap, which is confusing.)

These uBlock filters will make those sign up with Google popups go away entirely:

  ||accounts.google.com/gsi/iframe/select?*ux_mode=popup$all
  ||smartlock.google.com

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#119

Post by megablast »

masswerk wrote: post #100
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

While agree that most of these are highly invasive and certainly not a requirement, the Visibility API is actually a good thing. Apps which are running continuous scripts, like games, etc, may and should detect, when they are hidden (i.e. the tab they are in isn't the front most one) and pause. This is explicitely meant to preserve resources on the client machine and to benefit the user. On the other hand, there isn'…

I don't agree, I leave a video on, switch tabs to read something else, and now it stops. There is no way to get it to keep playing and switch tabs.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#120

Post by root_axis »

choward wrote: post #104
geofft wrote: post #86

A few things that aren't mentioned: - Web MIDI - access digital keyboards/synthesizers. I believe in some browsers there's no prompt, unlike Web USB. - Screen sharing via getDisplayMedia, analogous to getUserMedia for cameras. - WebRTC, peer-to-peer connections. - Security keys (WebAuthn), specific support for cheap ($10-$50 depending on features) devices that do second-factor login to websites. Importantly, these de…

Is WebRTC really peer-to-peer if you need a server?

As another commenter points out you can signal however you like, but even if a signaling server was required, it'd still be peer to peer since peer to peer accurately describes how the packets are routed over the network.
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