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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#81

Post by dragonwriter »

Arcsech wrote: post #46
ryukafalz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, websites that should be just documents are turning into resource-intensive applications, which is frustrating. Generally I do not want most websites using these features. On the other hand, the web as a runtime is one of the most universal platforms we have. If I run Slack in a browser, I sure do want it to be able to notify me! (Though I wish doing so felt more like the El…

It's almost like we shouldn't have tortured a document transfer system until it was able to run full-on applications.

The web was originally conceived as an interactive hypermedia platform, not a “document transfer system”.

It's true that it has displaced things they were true document or file transfer systems (Gopher, FTP) because it subsumes those functionalities, but it wasn't ever just that.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#82

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

duxup wrote: post #57
Arcsech wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like we shouldn't have tortured a document transfer system until it was able to run full-on applications.

The browser is such a great place as far as running an application goes almost universally. I remember when applications had to be tied to the OS, does it run on unix, linux, some other OS, or hardware... what a pain. If it is a web app it probabbly works most places.

ISWYM but I'd be much, much happier if the browser functionality of mainly delivering text and images was kept separate from the application functionality of ... doing bloody everything.

I want to turn off the application side of things for my safety (and I do), but too many sites require it unnecessarily to do the most basic tasks of displaying static text and pictures.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#83

Post by TheRealPomax »

rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then turn them off. All these things landed because users _do_ use them. I 100% want web share, page visibility, usb, and native file system, for instance, because the browser has become a convenient replacement for a bunch of playgroup/PoC/testbed applications that I might have used 10 years ago.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#84

Post by TheCoelacanth »

ironmagma wrote: post #71
modeless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If operating systems had ever provided security strong enough to run untrusted code, we wouldn't have needed to. It's really a failing of operating system security. Even today no operating system provides an application sandbox as strong and versatile as the browser. Platforms have fallen back on walled gardens (app stores) with centralized control of all code execution to compensate for the deficiencies of their sec…

But people still download and run apps every day. Some even prefer it. I doubt that the cause of this migration was due to security concerns -- since when are app developers particularly concerned about the quality of the security controls imposed on them? I suspect the shift was more due to ease of access, both by the user and for the developer, helped along by easier compatibility.

App developers care about the barrier to getting users to use their app. The barrier to getting a user to click on a weblink is much, much lower than the barrier to getting them to install an app.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#85

Post by geofft »

dijit wrote: post #12
beagle3 wrote: post #10

... and Safari still holding out on web push - this lack is a reason many native apps get written.

I’m not sure why I read this in a negative tone, this is fantastic.

What's fantastic about native apps?

I mean, I know why nation-state attackers love them - it's super easy to exploit them, and once you do, you have full access to everything in the user account (including all browser login sessions). But what's the advantage to users?

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#86

Post by geofft »

A few things that aren't mentioned:

- Web MIDI - access digital keyboards/synthesizers. I believe in some browsers there's no prompt, unlike Web USB.

- Screen sharing via getDisplayMedia, analogous to getUserMedia for cameras.

- WebRTC, peer-to-peer connections.

- Security keys (WebAuthn), specific support for cheap ($10-$50 depending on features) devices that do second-factor login to websites. Importantly, these devices communicate with the browser about which site you're logging into, making for phishing-proof logins.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#87

Post by beagle3 »

dijit wrote: post #12
beagle3 wrote: post #10

... and Safari still holding out on web push - this lack is a reason many native apps get written.

I’m not sure why I read this in a negative tone, this is fantastic.

I'm not sure about other browsers, but Firefox asks once per website that wants a push, and even that can be turned off.

What's fantastic about not even having the option? What's fantastic about having to pay $100/year or reinstall your apps once a week, in addition to having Apple MITM any notifications?

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#88

Post by melbourne_mat »

rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

I think having those capabilities is fine but I hate the endless notifications to use them from every damn web site! There should be a second and much more subtle notification system which does not obscure content or attract attention.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#89

Post by schappim »

fortran77 wrote: post #77

I think WebUSB is all but dead. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22228879

It is very much not dead and is used for educational products all the time.

We use it ourselves for our internal ecommerce backend system.

We made our own WebUSB Postage Scales and Label Printer that enables 1-click creation of consignment labels.

We pull weights from the postage scales and chuck raw ZPL over the wire to the Label Printer.

Being able to skip the bugs in operating system printing queues is amazing.

Demo:

https://vimeo.com/334547755/c387957a25

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#90

Post by untog »

markovbot wrote: post #62
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

How about the upcoming "SMS Receiver API" and "Contacts API"? Those look absolutely terrifying, and as soon as Chrome implements it, every shitty ass newspaper that is currently refusing to display their articles in private browsing windows will refuse to display their articles unless you fork over your contact list.

Have you actually read anything about either of those APIs or are you just reacting to the names?

The Contacts API does not allow unrestricted access to your Contacts. It presents a picker for you to choose a contact.

The SMS Receiver API is not universal access to SMS messages, it is access to one specific message and only one that contains your domain name in the message text.

Both have very obvious utility to users. They don't look even vaguely terrifying.

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