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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#151

Post by TheCoelacanth »

millstone wrote: post #122
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App developers care about the barrier to getting users to use their app. The barrier to getting a user to click on a weblink is much, much lower than the barrier to getting them to install an app.

This is one of the largest failings of the App Store providers. They should recognize this installation barrier and work towards fast and ephemeral app installs.

The two main App Store providers already have products that provide fast, ephemeral app installs: Safari and Chrome.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#152

Post by cj »

asjw wrote: post #134
cj wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You consider them undesirable, but they are a critical feature for many applications. Specifically, chat. More specifically... support agents providing live chat support. (And for that matter, end users interacting via chat appreciate push notifications on reply) Without browser push notifications, there really isn’t a good alternative. The fact that opt in rates are close to 50% is probably a good thing! It means th…

Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app If you need notifications, just use a native app (or even a web one wrapped in a native app) Anyway, most of these "features" are used because they are already there, remove them from the base install of the browser, distribute them as a plugin and make the devs consider that the feature could not be present and they will s…

> Any website I visit from mobile wants the permission to notify me

Strange, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a permission prompt on mobile. Chrome, iOS

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#153

Post by smohare »

untog wrote: post #79
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

That’s bullshit.

It’s out of step with what the companies whose livelihoods depend on advertising want to establish as the desires of users.

Try to realistically justify any of those use cases listed and you’ll realize what a shill you sound like.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#154

Post by TheCoelacanth »

saagarjha wrote: post #144
jan6 wrote: post #45

I'm rather sad that for example Battery API is deprecated... possibly might need a browser-wide toggle, but still... It can both be cool, and useful....mostly cool, though... you could have a complete web desktop (there several web desktops, and even more "fake" ones, like windows93) that shows the status, or a webpage that switches to dark mode with minimal javascript and theming, when battery is low, or a low distr…

> a webpage that switches to dark mode with minimal javascript and theming, when battery is low Please don't arbitrarily change the theme of the website I'm using based on my battery level. > a low distraction writing environment for example, that still notifies you of low battery My system does this.

> Please don't arbitrarily change the theme of the website I'm using based on my battery level.

Yeah, just base your theme off of the dark mode setting. Then if the _system_ changes to dark mode when battery is low, your app can follow suite.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#155

Post by johncolanduoni »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #145
modeless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If operating systems had ever provided security strong enough to run untrusted code, we wouldn't have needed to. It's really a failing of operating system security. Even today no operating system provides an application sandbox as strong and versatile as the browser. Platforms have fallen back on walled gardens (app stores) with centralized control of all code execution to compensate for the deficiencies of their sec…

> It's really a failing of operating system security Please stop the gaslighting. Virtual machines and sandboxes existed decades before browsers.

Virtual machines per app are a thing, but they have a lot of disadvantages (particularly resource consumption). Various sandboxes have existed for a long time, but I’m curious which ones you would point out that have survived anywhere near the scrutiny and attack surface that browsers have.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#156

Post by duxup »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #82
duxup wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The browser is such a great place as far as running an application goes almost universally. I remember when applications had to be tied to the OS, does it run on unix, linux, some other OS, or hardware... what a pain. If it is a web app it probabbly works most places.

ISWYM but I'd be much, much happier if the browser functionality of mainly delivering text and images was kept separate from the application functionality of ... doing bloody everything. I want to turn off the application side of things for my safety (and I do), but too many sites require it unnecessarily to do the most basic tasks of displaying static text and pictures.

I think that is more about how whomever wants to offer a site wants to offer their content, not the browser itself.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#157

Post by geofft »

app4soft wrote: post #143
geofft wrote: post #86

A few things that aren't mentioned: - Web MIDI - access digital keyboards/synthesizers. I believe in some browsers there's no prompt, unlike Web USB. - Screen sharing via getDisplayMedia, analogous to getUserMedia for cameras. - WebRTC, peer-to-peer connections. - Security keys (WebAuthn), specific support for cheap ($10-$50 depending on features) devices that do second-factor login to websites. Importantly, these de…

> A few things that aren't mentioned: Those and all other things listed on linked article are JavaScript-lang/engine things NOT related to browser itself. You could use such using Electron, literally "outside of browser" Try disable JS in your browser OR try to use Links [0] browser ­— and lets see what you can do with a browser in 2020. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(web_browser)

The article is about things you can do with a browser, not things you can do with a browser with JS disabled. I think it's accurate. Also, all these features require support from parts of the browser beyond the JS implementation. Also, Electron embeds a web browser. Also, the ability to do things with something other than a browser doesn't imply you can't do them with a browser.

This is like replying to "Places you can visit for a road trip" and saying "You can visit all these places by train, too, also let's see you go there in a car without the engine."

(I am a links user, btw.)

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#158

Post by jfkebwjsbx »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #147
asjw wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were OSes they would have a kernel and user land You would have ring0 and ring3 You could decide what to install or what remove In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default More than an OS is a disaster waiting to happen

kernel = browser, user land = web apps I don't understand what you mean by "In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default". Browsers have a much more robust security and privacy model than normal OSes.

False.

For starters, browsers can only implement sandboxing thanks to the OS facilities, otherwise it would be impossible.

And that is modern ones. 5 years ago some browsers were still a security nightmare with not even multiprocess separation.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#159

Post by nneonneo »

The Web Coffee API (https://github.com/luruke/browser-2020#web-coffee-api) is my favorite of the bunch. I definitely recommend checking out the linked WHATWG documentation, as well as the relevant RFC for the HTTP protocol: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2324

What can’t a browser do these days?

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#160

Post by AgentME »

millstone wrote: post #122
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App developers care about the barrier to getting users to use their app. The barrier to getting a user to click on a weblink is much, much lower than the barrier to getting them to install an app.

This is one of the largest failings of the App Store providers. They should recognize this installation barrier and work towards fast and ephemeral app installs.

I think it's great that they don't do a good job there, because it gives a big advantage to a cross-platform open-source open-standards alternative.

Though Android does try to address this with Google Play Instant (https://developer.android.com/topic/google-play-instant). I've never encountered it in the wild though.

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