One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American • Hacker News Board

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#281

Post by hitpointdrew » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #249

hitpointdrew wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? You are way out of band. The average American can't afford an unexpected $500 bill, lives pay-check-to-pay-check and doesn't have education beyond high school. $1k month would be HUGE for the average American. Most common jobs are truck driving, retail workers, food prep and service. You probably just live in an…

Sure, it is huge if you have your regular paycheck. But as a paycheck replacement because the preschool you work at has closed for 6 weeks? It isn't so large. It might be what you bring home every couple of weeks. (Preschool teachers often need a 2-year degree and get paid minimum wage or just a bit more). That $1k only works if it is on top of normal wages.

Last I checked for someone getting $0, vs they now get $1k every month, that is a pretty big deal. Even if it by no means covers all expenses. It is the difference of being absolutely fucked, vs being kinda fucked, but you now have a much better chance of transitioning or making things work. Also if it is 1k for every adult, then a household with 2 adults (a spouse or significant other), now is getting (as a unit) $2k a month, that is not insignificant and can easily cover mortgage/rent and then some for most Americans.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#282

Post by BoiledCabbage » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

oat_bravo_nap wrote: post #191

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like these are wild approaches. But during this this current term we've already done #1 via the 1Trillion tax cuts to mostly the wealthy. Those (many of us on here) who won't use it for goods and services, but instead to further prop up your asset bubble of choice. Ie not improve the economy much, but make the appearance of improvement via higher asset pricess. Then we've done #3 via re-introducing QE via the…

> But during this this current term we've already done #1 via the 1Trillion tax cuts to mostly the wealthy. Tax revenue has not decreased. The deficit is a spending problem not a revenue problem.

> The deficit is a spending problem not a revenue problem.

I'm not certain what you're getting at. The deficit is defined as the delta between spending and revenue. It's as much one problem as it is the other. Could you clarify what you mean?

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#283

Post by xyzzyz » Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #242

vearwhershuh wrote: post #13

This is how we should manage the money supply, and it should be monthly. Direct, debt free issuance of a citizens dividend to every US citizen. Coupled with a wind-down of the debt bubble. Maybe take Steve Keen's idea and require that a certain portion of the payment be used to extinguish any debts. Unfortunately whenever a president starts talking about this, he has a tendency to be shot.

>Unfortunately whenever a president starts talking about this, he has a tendency to be shot. What are you talking about? Unless I'm forgetting someone, there have only been 2 assassinations, and one attempted one that famously failed. Lincoln was assassinated by someone who was mad about the Civil War. Reagan was shot by Sirhan Sirhan, but I doubt that's what you're talking about. Kennedy might be what you're talking…

You're forgetting half of assassinated presidents. Nobody cares about President Garfield and President McKinley, it seems.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#284

Post by magduf » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 12:07 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #273

magduf wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landlords are using the rent to pay the mortgage on the property. If the banks suspend mortgage payments, then the landlords don't need to collect rent any more. If the landlords desperately need that rent just to do basic maintenance and repairs, and don't have enough saved to deal with a possible problem that might happen in the next month, then they don't deserve to own the property.

> The landlords are using the rent to pay the mortgage on the property. If the banks suspend mortgage payments, then the landlords don't need to collect rent any more. How do you know it goes to a mortgage? The property could be owned by a retired couple and the rent is the income they live on, or a charity and the rent is how they fund their operations. Or it could be owned by a regular old smelly landlord who just…

Landlords do not need to invest in the S&P 500 right now; keeping the stock market going is not more important than people who can't pay rent.

If the landlords are retired, they have Social Security and probably other sources of income. If they can't live on that, then they're living beyond their means and don't need to be landlords.

If landlords can't float a little money to pay utilities, then they're in desperately bad financial shape, and shouldn't be landlords. What are they going to do when one of their tenants doesn't pay rent? Just let the utilities for other tenants get turned off? I'd be OK with simply seizing the properties from landlords that can't manage their properties properly.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#285

Post by Rallerbabs » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

It's a start. Americans will like it. They'll demand it again. And the government should keep giving it.

This is our opportunity to get basic income perpetually.

We should've had it decades ago already.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#286

Post by oat_bravo_nap » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #282

oat_bravo_nap wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But during this this current term we've already done #1 via the 1Trillion tax cuts to mostly the wealthy. Tax revenue has not decreased. The deficit is a spending problem not a revenue problem.

> The deficit is a spending problem not a revenue problem. I'm not certain what you're getting at. The deficit is defined as the delta between spending and revenue. It's as much one problem as it is the other. Could you clarify what you mean?

It does not matter how much money the US government takes in taxes. They will continue to spend more than that causing a deficit. For example if tax revenues increased by 500 bln, that could be used to decrease the deficit by 500 bln if spending was not increased. However, what would happen is that the government would increase spending by say 1 trillion so the deficit would continue to grow despite higher tax revenue.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#287

Post by Broken_Hippo » Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 12:41 PM UTC

hitpointdrew wrote: post #281

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it is huge if you have your regular paycheck. But as a paycheck replacement because the preschool you work at has closed for 6 weeks? It isn't so large. It might be what you bring home every couple of weeks. (Preschool teachers often need a 2-year degree and get paid minimum wage or just a bit more). That $1k only works if it is on top of normal wages.

Last I checked for someone getting $0, vs they now get $1k every month, that is a pretty big deal. Even if it by no means covers all expenses. It is the difference of being absolutely fucked, vs being kinda fucked, but you now have a much better chance of transitioning or making things work. Also if it is 1k for every adult, then a household with 2 adults (a spouse or significant other), now is getting (as a unit) $2…

Sure, it is better than nothing, and might cover expenses for the month. Or might not. But people are acting like folks are going to go on a spending spree - this only works if you are getting a regular paycheck anyway. This isn't gonna happen. It is survival money if it replaces regular wages, and maybe less than that if they are taking taes out.