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One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

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Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#201

Post by AnimalMuppet »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #13

This is how we should manage the money supply, and it should be monthly. Direct, debt free issuance of a citizens dividend to every US citizen. Coupled with a wind-down of the debt bubble. Maybe take Steve Keen's idea and require that a certain portion of the payment be used to extinguish any debts. Unfortunately whenever a president starts talking about this, he has a tendency to be shot.

> Unfortunately whenever a president starts talking about this, he has a tendency to be shot.

So, refresh my memory: Was Reagan talking about this? Ford? (People attempted to shoot him twice, but not hit.) Kennedy?

For that matter, has a president ever seriously proposed this?

You sound like you're just making stuff up.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#202

Post by Gunax »

gdubs wrote: post #25
Gunax wrote: post #15

I too think this is silly. Everyone wants to use this disaster to achieve the policy goals they wanted anyway. Republicans want to use it as an excuse for tax cuts. Democrats want to expand public healthcare and benefits. Everyone is trying to attach riders for domestic violence victims or pork spending or whatever pet issue they have. And now the Ubi folks want this. Nothing changes. Same BS.

UBI, Tax Cuts, Social Safety Net – these are all different approaches to solving actual problems. Are politics full of pork and cynicism? Sure. But at the end of the day _something_ needs to be done, and it would be more constructive to have a rational discussion of which of the tools at our disposal stand a chance against this menace.

Sure. I agree. I think everyone agrees.

I suppose I just get skeptical whenever a solution has been proposed that is apparently a panacea to all of societies problems. When 'x' has been purported to solve everything for 30 years, I start to get skeptical about x has any bearing on whatever disaster occured today.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#203

Post by hitpointdrew »

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

> Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American?

You are way out of band. The average American can't afford an unexpected $500 bill, lives pay-check-to-pay-check and doesn't have education beyond high school. $1k month would be HUGE for the average American.

Most common jobs are truck driving, retail workers, food prep and service.

You probably just live in an echo chamber where most people you live around and associate with are college educated people in professions like IT, Marketing, Accounting, etc.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#204

Post by cactus2093 »

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

Even in China, lockdowns are starting to be lifted now after like 2 months. So buying people two months is a HUGE deal.

There are other measures in talks too, like eviction protection during the duration of the outbreak as a state-wide in California. Utility companies have agreed not to shut off power and water for those late on their bills. So $1000 would go a long way keeping people from not starving, and maybe even go further to cover all costs like you mention in your case.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#205

Post by tialaramex »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #116
TheFiend7 wrote: post #76

The whole idea of UBI is honestly pretty idiotic. Any form of UBI should 1000% be in the form of benefits, goods, housing, or other physical goods. I'd much rather have tax cuts to reduce money lost through the middle man, as the middle man always wants a cut. Meaning you'd lose far more money to the process than if you were to just reduce taxes.

> Any form of UBI should 1000% be in the form of benefits, goods, housing, or other physical goods. We've tried this and it's a dumpster fire. The government builds low income housing which is 100% people in poverty and it turns into a slum. The government subsidizes home loans and student loans and it raises the cost of housing and education. The government subsidizes food and then restaurant workers who already hav…

Yup. This is an _extensively_ studied problem. Money works. It works in an African village and in an Alabama trailer park the same. The main argument against giving people money is only an ideological one, that we "shouldn't" give people money rather than that it doesn't work better.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#206

Post by magduf »

adventured wrote: post #72
leggomylibro wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't live off of $1000/mo in most cities without making some real sacrifices, but a $1000 supplement would still be a huge help to people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and may not get paid for a few weeks. It'll buffer out what might otherwise turn into an inability to pay basic bills like food and medicine. After all, only 40% of Americans are able to cover an unexpected $1000 expense. That's the really soberin…

> only 40% of Americans are able to cover an unexpected $1000 expense. That's the really sobering number, in my view This is pretty common everywhere across the developed world. The majority of OECD nations have a lower median wealth figure than the US, including Sweden and Germany (their median wealth figures are particularly shockingly low, given the affluence those nations should have vs their national output and…

I think you're talking about apples and oranges.

Sure, these nations might have lower median "wealth" figures, but they also typically have lower costs of living (maybe not Sweden, but Germany does). These countries also have much better safety nets than the US. And if the German savings rate is high, that means they can weather a crisis better than the average American. Americans may make more money, but when they blow it all on an enormous car payment for a giant SUV and a mortgage for the biggest house they could possibly get given their salary, and don't save anything, that leaves them in a precarious position when they have a temporary loss of income.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#207

Post by craftyguy »

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

Well, it's a stupid fucking idea, to begin with. If donald wants to throw money at something, he should throw it at the actual problem (implementing a vaccine for the virus, improving the shit health care system in the US, etc). Giving people money that they are too scared to go spend will do nothing, except get support for an election. But hey, donald has no interest in actually governing.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#208

Post by bobthepanda »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #108
adventured wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only 40% of Americans are able to cover an unexpected $1000 expense. That's the really sobering number, in my view This is pretty common everywhere across the developed world. The majority of OECD nations have a lower median wealth figure than the US, including Sweden and Germany (their median wealth figures are particularly shockingly low, given the affluence those nations should have vs their national output and…

There is way higher number of situation where US Americans need to have 1000$ ready.

Examples:

- don't need to keep beating the dead horse about American healthcare

- cars. In most European countries a car is not absolutely vital. A lot of America is "drive til you qualify", and car issues can easily be above a grand. You need a car to go even to the closest store many times, so quarantine would not really get rid of your need for a car.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#209

Post by magduf »

eudoxus wrote: post #189
GeorgeWBasic wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what he said. He didn't say, "give everyone $1000 towards their rent or mortgage". He said, temporarily suspend all rent and mortgage payments. As in, nobody pays any of it. Recurring expenses are what's going to destroy the economy so thoroughly that the great depression will look like a minor downtown. If nobody gets kicked out because they can't pay rent, or their mortgage, or the lease on their busines…

I understand how that would work for Mortgage payments as they are controlled/facilitated by banks, and the government has the ability to coordinate with banks (in an ideal case). But how might the federal government enforce suspension of rent payments? Rent just goes to landlords (regular people) and is part of their gross income filed on their taxes. If you don't have to pay your rent, wouldn't we just be moving th…

The landlords are using the rent to pay the mortgage on the property. If the banks suspend mortgage payments, then the landlords don't need to collect rent any more.

If the landlords desperately need that rent just to do basic maintenance and repairs, and don't have enough saved to deal with a possible problem that might happen in the next month, then they don't deserve to own the property.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#210

Post by pwf8 »

wonderwonder wrote: post #85
maratd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a profoundly bad idea. It's just as dumb as the fed trying to prop things up. You're not going to solve this problem with money, but with a strong response to the root cause, the pandemic. That said ... > My wife and I have a newborn, which currently isn't very expensive but we all still need to eat I imagine you would get $3k since there are 3 of you.

People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. So they go to work and spread the virus. Providing them and others with enough money to at least cover their most dire bills reduces that need to go to work sick. If money is not provided to these people, the odds that they are soon homeless if their work closes down is very real. ~40% of America cannot afford a…

What you don't get is Wall St and Corporate America will come up with 2000 different schemes to extract as much of that $1000 by tomorrow morning.
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