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One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

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Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#181

Post by nostromo »

andreilys wrote: post #23
Gunax wrote: post #15

I too think this is silly. Everyone wants to use this disaster to achieve the policy goals they wanted anyway. Republicans want to use it as an excuse for tax cuts. Democrats want to expand public healthcare and benefits. Everyone is trying to attach riders for domestic violence victims or pork spending or whatever pet issue they have. And now the Ubi folks want this. Nothing changes. Same BS.

What do you think will help the recovery more, QE by central banks or UBI?

QE tends to be net neutral financially.

The Fed steps in, makes some loans or buys some securities -- when the disaster abates, they get some money back from their loans and sell the securities for a profit.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#182

Post by maratd »

wonderwonder wrote: post #85
maratd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a profoundly bad idea. It's just as dumb as the fed trying to prop things up. You're not going to solve this problem with money, but with a strong response to the root cause, the pandemic. That said ... > My wife and I have a newborn, which currently isn't very expensive but we all still need to eat I imagine you would get $3k since there are 3 of you.

People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. So they go to work and spread the virus. Providing them and others with enough money to at least cover their most dire bills reduces that need to go to work sick. If money is not provided to these people, the odds that they are soon homeless if their work closes down is very real. ~40% of America cannot afford a…

> People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off.

Absolutely and those people should receive assistance through the regular channels we have available. Unemployment, charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc. and frankly, good old fashioned neighborly assistance.

Not by throwing money at everybody, most of whom do not need it. That's just redistribution of wealth by another means. Don't shove your political agenda down people's throats in the middle of a pandemic.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#183

Post by nostromo »

erobbins wrote: post #153

Honestly I'd like to see a 1 month quarantine, with the US government guaranteeing the wages of everyone in the workforce for that time. Something like 100% up to 50k/year, 75% of 50-100k, and cap it there. It would cost a few hundred billion dollars but it would keep the "I have to work or be homeless" people from being homeless and allow them to actually stay home for that time.

And then the virus spreads one month later.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#184

Post by justin66 »

Gunax wrote: post #15

I too think this is silly. Everyone wants to use this disaster to achieve the policy goals they wanted anyway. Republicans want to use it as an excuse for tax cuts. Democrats want to expand public healthcare and benefits. Everyone is trying to attach riders for domestic violence victims or pork spending or whatever pet issue they have. And now the Ubi folks want this. Nothing changes. Same BS.

I don't get it, particularly in the context of emergency relief for individuals, which is where this conversation started.

1. The pandemic reveals major holes in the social safety net that people are pretty upset about.

2. One party wants the patch the holes, and they continue to feel that way. The other party regards the holes as grimly necessary to keep people properly motivated, or part of God's divine plan, or impossibly expensive to fix in spite of the fact that less wealthy countries manage it, or something, and they continue to feel that way.

therefore

3. Woo, both sides are equally crazy!!!

This is why we can't have nice things.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#185

Post by xxandroxygen »

missedthecue wrote: post #109

I think this is silly. The idea behind this is to induce demand, but there isn't a lack of demand due to lack of purchasing power. People aren't spending because they aren't leaving the house. (which, in the case of a pandemic, is a thing to be encouraged) I sincerely doubt that giving everyone a thousand bucks will save the restaurants and bars and movie theaters and retailers and cruise ships and hotels and airline…

You're right, a thousand bucks a person won't save those things. But the people who /were/ working at those restaurants/bars/etc now have a way to buy food for the month. People aren't leaving the house but they sure still need to spend on food, rent, basics.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#186

Post by Mountain_Skies »

timwaagh wrote: post #135

They tried that in Iran. The result: massive inflation. The system cannot handle such a massive spike in demand especially if production is under strain from covid. It surprises me Romney is for it because he was a politician back when ahmedinejad tried that little stunt.

Romney and economic disaster for the working class seem to go hand in hand.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#187

Post by cscurmudgeon »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #26
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock market is not a magical abstract thing that has no impact on people's lives. It has an indirect and huge impact on all of us.

Money in our pockets would also have a direct impact us on. Why include the middleman? Let bad companies fail.

Most (all?) of the stimulus is loans that will be repaid.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#189

Post by eudoxus »

GeorgeWBasic wrote: post #172
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everybody has either rent or a mortgage. Therefore giving someone $1000 towards their rent/mortgage is basically equivalent to just giving them $1000, except that it's a ton of extra administrative complexity and it also screws over a few people who somehow don't qualify but still need help. Whereas if you make the assistance "we pay the amount of your mortgage" instead of "we pay $1000" then you're givin…

That's not what he said. He didn't say, "give everyone $1000 towards their rent or mortgage". He said, temporarily suspend all rent and mortgage payments. As in, nobody pays any of it. Recurring expenses are what's going to destroy the economy so thoroughly that the great depression will look like a minor downtown. If nobody gets kicked out because they can't pay rent, or their mortgage, or the lease on their busines…

I understand how that would work for Mortgage payments as they are controlled/facilitated by banks, and the government has the ability to coordinate with banks (in an ideal case). But how might the federal government enforce suspension of rent payments? Rent just goes to landlords (regular people) and is part of their gross income filed on their taxes. If you don't have to pay your rent, wouldn't we just be moving the buck from renters to landlords in terms of finnancial needs?

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#190

Post by Gunax »

NamTaf wrote: post #64
Gunax wrote: post #15

I too think this is silly. Everyone wants to use this disaster to achieve the policy goals they wanted anyway. Republicans want to use it as an excuse for tax cuts. Democrats want to expand public healthcare and benefits. Everyone is trying to attach riders for domestic violence victims or pork spending or whatever pet issue they have. And now the Ubi folks want this. Nothing changes. Same BS.

This is hardly a UBI. It's also been done before, for example in Australia during the GFC. The idea is to get money into the hands of people who will actually spend it - the poor will tend to go buy their kid a desperately needed new pair of school shoes, for example, whereas the rich will just throw it in with their other savings. Only one of those stimulates the economy in the short term.

While I agree it isn't UBI, I think it's UBI-light.

I am not necessarily saying it's a bad idea, I am just jaded that solutions always follow existing political ties.

I am sure there are logical arguments for it. But there are also logical arguments for tax cuts right now.

I am just an idiot on the internet. All I can say is I get skeptical whenever an idea purports to solve any situation that arises.

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