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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#371

Post by dillonmckay »

ethbro wrote: post #170
wolco wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren't they the first to limit then ban travel from Wuhan / China. To say they have done nothing sounds political. Good and poor decisions were made.

In addition to enacting the CDC effort to distribute tests. That some of those tests were contaminated, or that the FDA may have made a hard call in proceeding with redistribution or calling an audible to multi-sourced testing, is a strategic problem. But let's not say nothing was done. I'm sure there were plenty of sleepless nights at the CDC, before we even had confirmed US cases. (Happened to drive by it today. An…

The US refused the WHO tests and wanted to create their own.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#372

Post by mgsouth »

Quote from a recent Scott Manley episode seems appropriate:

    We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because we asked ourselves "how hard could it be?"[0]
I'm pondering how long would it take GM to modify their ERP systems to handle an entirely new business line. Never mind that... how long would it take them to define the requirements for the plan to determine the framework for the project to explore the changes needed to the organization? Turning on a dime is not something a large corporation is good at, no matter how well-meaning. It takes time for people to learn how to do unfamiliar things, it takes time to organize large groups of people, it takes time to even decide what the requirements are.

Many HN readers work in software development. We constantly deal with stakeholders who have completely unrealistic timeframe expectations. Do we really think GM could, in effect, create an entirely new division in a couple of sprints? How long do you think simply creating new injection molds would take? Does GM even know how to handle the kinds of plastics used in ventilators?

Edit: Think war-room. The worst thing a manager can do during an emergency is try to create new processes or add people to make things go faster. My job is to let the folks who already know what to do do it. Sweep all obstacles out of the way. Order pizza, arrange for day-care, rent the hotel across the street. The only really quick ways to increase availability of medical equipment is to give existing manufacturers whatever help they need to run 24x7, and to help their suppliers run 24x7.

At this point, anyone who is "offering to help" is going to be of little use. If you have the infrastructure in place, you had better be doing everything you can to be ramped up. If you need resources you should be screaming for them--no one else is going to be able to tell you what you need or what to do. If you don't have the infrastructure, knowledge, or contacts, then you're just going to get in the way.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=graC_Vib1IE @8:40

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#373

Post by leereeves »

netsharc wrote: post #356
leereeves wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Angry Moustache Bolton > one of the brainwashed Talk like that isn't appropriate here. As deng says, this is a place for curious, open-minded discussion, not partisan name calling.

Fine... and any response to the substance of my posts? To pivot to the psychology, I'm going to conclude: Here you are, changing the topic, because as I said above, you are a Trump defender (I will assume this until I see a denial) who can't admit that he's been taken for a ride, because, as I copy-pasted above, you think "I'm not a gullible person!". If you want to show me you're curious and open-minded, respond to…

I've already responded to the substance of your earlier posts, and these new posts don't contain anything new of substance. This discussion ended when you switched to blanket personal attacks on everyone who disagrees with you.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#374

Post by buboard »

JonathanFly wrote: post #337

Wouldn't it make more sense to make masks and other PPE first? You don't need a ventilator if you don't get sick in the first place, masks are much faster to put into immediate production, and impacting the curve earlier is going to have a much bigger effect than later. I mean make everything. But I have family members working in hospitals right now and they are asking me to search the internet and find masks for the…

i was thinking, if this ends up being long term, better make full spacesuits for everyone

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#375

Post by dillonmckay »

bildung wrote: post #318
leereeves wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are we supposed to see in those links? I see two photos of people standing close together. Neither group is practicing social distancing. The Japanese are wearing masks (not N95 masks) whose effectiveness is still being debated, but that's about custom, not government response. The photo from America shows a bigger room, but I suspect that's just a choice of photo and Japanese airports had big rooms full…

The important point of the Japanese mask-wearing custom is the reason why they are worn: To protect others from infection. That purpose doesn't need N95 protection. The current US Airport situation was in the news here in Germany, but perhaps not in the US. It breaks with most distancing guidelines. People are much too close to each other (compared to the advised 1-2m distance), and shared the same room (and air) for…

In the US, they were also sharing pens to complete the photocopied symptom forms, which constituted the ‘screening’.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#376

Post by netsharc »

leereeves wrote: post #373
netsharc wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine... and any response to the substance of my posts? To pivot to the psychology, I'm going to conclude: Here you are, changing the topic, because as I said above, you are a Trump defender (I will assume this until I see a denial) who can't admit that he's been taken for a ride, because, as I copy-pasted above, you think "I'm not a gullible person!". If you want to show me you're curious and open-minded, respond to…

I've already responded to the substance of your earlier posts, and these new posts don't contain anything new of substance. This discussion ended when you switched to blanket personal attacks on everyone who disagrees with you.

Well, you know my conclusions.

I'd disagree with your claim that you've responded (in my view your "Aaah you're attacking me" is just a deflection), but as I've written, I'm walking away. Enjoy that cognitive dissonance!

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#377

Post by ggreer »

onion2k wrote: post #368
ajross wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because no one has stepped up to write a check. Hospitals are businesses, they're not going to do this on their own. GM is a business, they're not donating those ventilators, they're trying to make a sale into a new market. States, most of them, can't do it because their budgets are fixed by their constitutions and they can't take a loan or write a bond without a referendum. There's basically one entity in thi…

Right, because no one has stepped up to write a check. If only billionaire Elon Musk knew someone who could pay.

Almost all of his wealth is the value of the companies he runs. He's so cash-poor that he couldn't even pay a $75k fine.[1]

1. https://observer.com/2019/10/elon-musk-british-diver-lawsuit...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#378

Post by semi-extrinsic »

phaemon wrote: post #363
nickik wrote: post #359

That's a total fantasy when you consider rare earths. And they know it. The military can produce basically nothing without resources for China.

Nope, rare earth elements are common pretty much everywhere. The only reason companies buy them from China is because they're cheaper due to their lower wages and lack of environmental protection. When China limited export of rare earths, leading to a dispute with Western countries, all that happened was suddenly Western mining firms became viable and attracted investment. China then dropped the export limits and dro…

Same thing the Chinese did with solar panels back in the early 2000s. Subsidise national production so it could run at a loss, forcing others out of business and cornering the market.

In some sense it's pretty obvious that a free market capitalist system will mostly lose in competition with a state regulated system, if the latter decides it is important to have control of a sector.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#379

Post by config_yml »

BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Meanwhile, actual ventilator manufacturers are not getting many orders: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/18/ventilator-...

Manufactures like Hamilton Medical that are local here are currently working overtime and also work on Saturdays to keep up with demand.

They are not raising prices, but they're also not selling to new customers, as they're afraid intermediate buyers are taking advantage and raising prices on their end.

They also said they have about 2-3 months of runway until their supplies dry up, since parts from China aren't coming in. They did however get supplies ordered in December, because they anticipated the crisis.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#380

Post by leereeves »

netsharc wrote: post #376
leereeves wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've already responded to the substance of your earlier posts, and these new posts don't contain anything new of substance. This discussion ended when you switched to blanket personal attacks on everyone who disagrees with you.

Well, you know my conclusions. I'd disagree with your claim that you've responded (in my view your "Aaah you're attacking me" is just a deflection), but as I've written, I'm walking away. Enjoy that cognitive dissonance!

There's no cognitive dissonance. Just a lot of disappointment every time I read the facts behind the latest "scandal" and find that it's just anti-Trump spin.

Let's not bring that nonsense here. Let's discuss facts and evidence and make an effort to put partisanship aside.

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