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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#351

Post by diarmuidc »

xvector wrote: post #340
JonathanFly wrote: post #337

Wouldn't it make more sense to make masks and other PPE first? You don't need a ventilator if you don't get sick in the first place, masks are much faster to put into immediate production, and impacting the curve earlier is going to have a much bigger effect than later. I mean make everything. But I have family members working in hospitals right now and they are asking me to search the internet and find masks for the…

Can’t say I agree. Surprisingly few people wear masks even when they are available - my local hardware stores have had plenty in stock and yet they barely get used. Finally, the benefit of masks is questionable since most people are now performing social distancing. Ventilators are needed for serious cases and cannot be produced as quickly as masks. While masks may or may not help, more ventilators will definitely he…

Because masks don't help prevent you getting it https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#352

Post by wwweston »

leereeves wrote: post #313
wwweston wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can all be true and it's still worth nothing to talk about this problem as if it we can wash our hands of blame and assign it all to China. The US government is not responsible for the emergence of the epidemic. The US government is definitely responsible for the policy responses in the US that have shaped the course of its emergence here. And we can see that several governments that are not China have handled a…

The NY Times has some great charts showing the number of new cases each day for many nations. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/19/world/coronav... The only countries that appear to have handled it better are South Korea and Japan. If I mixed up the charts for the US and other nations except those and Italy (which is much worse), you wouldn't be able to tell which is which. So when you say: > The US governm…

> The only countries that appear to have handled it better are South Korea and Japan.

How many better examples would it take before one concludes that it's possible to have done better and there is a responsibility to do so?

I'd say one is adequate.

> If I mixed up the charts for the US and other nations except those and Italy (which is much worse), you wouldn't be able to tell which is which.

Take off the labels and I'd absolutely be able to tell that the countries are divided among:

* those that have a simple exponential curve that tells a story of no effective intervention

* those that have a noisier exponential curve, which suggests a story of either partially effective interventions or some confounding factor

* those that have peaks and valleys, suggesting a story of moving towards containment and then hitting setbacks

* those that have apparently peaked, suggesting a story of effective containment efforts

And we already know which category the US belongs in.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#353

Post by Symbiote »

agurk wrote: post #329
leereeves wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NY Times has some great charts showing the number of new cases each day for many nations. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/19/world/coronav... The only countries that appear to have handled it better are South Korea and Japan. If I mixed up the charts for the US and other nations except those and Italy (which is much worse), you wouldn't be able to tell which is which. So when you say: > The US governm…

From that NY Times article Denmark has an interesting shaped curve that might cause the casual observer to think it's been brought under control. Denmark were very good at testing widely initially and have subsequently changed the criteria for who gets tested to only be for those presenting with acute symptoms. I haven't been able to find out why they changed but my assumption is limited testing capacity and they're…

https://politi.dk/en/coronavirus-in-denmark/frequently-asked...

That page has the official advice for Denmark, but not necessarily the underlying reasons.

I assume there's a limited supply of tests, and they need to keep enough in stock for predicted future serious cases.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#354

Post by NohatCoder »

abeld wrote: post #338
NohatCoder wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very short guide: Put a mouthpiece on the patient, connect the mouthpiece to the tube from the ventilator, turn the ventilator on. Longer guide: Read the manual for the specific ventilator and have fun adjusting air mixture, pump frequency, pressure, volume and other stuff. Choose one of several different models of mouthpiece, with or without tubes, depending on patient needs. Learn about different failure modes and…

The type of ventillators required by the most serious cases are much more complicated: as I understand it, it involves push a tube down to the lungs, and the machine breathing instead of the patient, i.e. it has to carefully monitor and regulate the pressure etc. Already the "push tube down to the lungs" part is quite a challenge: avoiding damage to the vocal cords, or to the lungs, etc.

Tubes down the lungs is definitely a bit tricky, not all patients will require that model though. As for careful monitoring, that is something the machine does on its own, as long as it has been configured correctly for the individual patient.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#355

Post by leereeves »

netsharc wrote: post #344
leereeves wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's drop the analogy and discuss reality. What do you blame Trump for? From what I've read, the US response was hindered mostly by a faulty reagent in the CDC's test kits, which led to an inability to test patients for the virus.[1] How is a faulty reagent Trump's fault? And even with that hinderence, the course of the virus, the number of people hospitalized, and the government policies in the US seem to be procee…

Can I blame him for picking Angry Moustache Bolton? As I said before, Bolton, the best man for the job in Trump's eyes, cut NSC/CDC funding, making the US blinder to threats. Are you really that much of a Trump-defender? Now it's wholly CDC's fault, so Trump is still innocent? I'd bother look up his many downplaying and ignorance of the issues, but is it worth it, if you're one of the brainwashed? As this man said [1…

> Angry Moustache Bolton

> one of the brainwashed

Talk like that isn't appropriate here.

As deng says, this is a place for curious, open-minded discussion, not partisan name calling.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#356

Post by netsharc »

leereeves wrote: post #355
netsharc wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I blame him for picking Angry Moustache Bolton? As I said before, Bolton, the best man for the job in Trump's eyes, cut NSC/CDC funding, making the US blinder to threats. Are you really that much of a Trump-defender? Now it's wholly CDC's fault, so Trump is still innocent? I'd bother look up his many downplaying and ignorance of the issues, but is it worth it, if you're one of the brainwashed? As this man said [1…

> Angry Moustache Bolton > one of the brainwashed Talk like that isn't appropriate here. As deng says, this is a place for curious, open-minded discussion, not partisan name calling.

Fine... and any response to the substance of my posts?

To pivot to the psychology, I'm going to conclude: Here you are, changing the topic, because as I said above, you are a Trump defender (I will assume this until I see a denial) who can't admit that he's been taken for a ride, because, as I copy-pasted above, you think "I'm not a gullible person!".

If you want to show me you're curious and open-minded, respond to the substances about Trump. Otherwise I'll keep my conclusions and walk away.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#357

Post by blauditore »

bluenose69 wrote: post #349

A line at the top says "Musk tweets Tesla will make ventilators if there’s a shortage". Well, the "if" part does not really seem to be a question. With US cases at 10^4 today, and a doubling time of 2.5 days (note 1), and with the estimates of available stockpile, it seems well past time to get started on this. I doubt that making a ventilator is as simple as knitting a scarf. Another way to contribute would be to fi…

Viral spread is more complicated than a simple exponential curve. This is even visible when just eyeballing graphs in log space, e.g. here: https://mackuba.eu/corona/#total

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#358

Post by onetimemanytime »

_-___________-_ wrote: post #249
onetimemanytime wrote: post #191

>> Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said the company would make ventilators if there is a shortage well, there is. Either get off Twitter or shoot a tweet to your underlings to get going. Pretty much countries will buy any ventilator that someone makes, money is no object.

Actually, right now there is not a shortage of ventilators. Few hospitals have ordered more, and there are large stocks. There probably will be a shortage soon, but unless someone orders them and guarantees payment it's hard to imagine any manufacturer re-tooling their factory and spinning up production on a wing and a prayer.

do you really think they will be unsold? No one is willing to export those few that are manufactured so getting guaranteed payment is not an issue, I'm sure. USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy and everyone has opened their wallets... https://www.wired.com/story/ventilator-makers-race-to-preven...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#360

Post by huffmsa »

melling wrote: post #321

While we do need some equipment, instead of treating the symptoms, we could lock ourselves down and avoid the surge. We saw China stop the problem a month ago. South Korea seems to have stopped the problem with testing. Buy ourselves a month so we can ramp up testing. The US just past South Korea and France yesterday in covid-19 cases. We have 9400 cases and 150 deaths. By the way, China is reporting no new domestic…

China didn't just hunker down though. They built out hospital capacity.

The US can and should be doing that as well.

We've got the most advanced logistics networks the world has ever seen installed on our phones.

We've got thousands of young, unlikely to die people who clearly need to be put to work. Time to build and ship hardware like it's WW2.

Will blunt the economic impact of this pandemic, and hopefully the pandemic itself.

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