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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#211

Post by mlb_hn »

leereeves wrote: post #205
thereare5lights wrote: post #67

> There are going to be a lot of comments about how we messed up, wasted time, etc., but they miss the point. That, ironically, misses the point of the existing comments about how we wasted time. By wasting time, lots of people are going to die that didn't need to die. None of that has to do with mobilization itself or the issues that we run into during mobilization, it has to do with when we decided to mobilize.

The world's response was late because the Chinese government lied about the virus. Just two months ago the WHO, relying on China's statements, said: > Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China[1] Two months ago the WHO said they didn't have clear evidence coronavirus was…

Leadership in the US Government wasted a lot of time trying to play down the pandemic [1] as did large (conservative) news organizations [2]. Both are now trying to blame China, arguably to shift blame from themselves.

It didn't need to be that way; South Korea's government action back in January helped them while the US Government's action hindered response [3].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/on-fox-news-s...

[3]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testin...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#212

Post by andbberger »

alex_young wrote: post #9

This is what Musk should be doing.

Let us all remember that he told the tesla factory workers to come in or take unpaid sick leave.

He has now jumped on the ventilator bandwagon. I'm sure it strikes him am as an excellent way to be considered an essential business.

His behavior during this time of crisis has not been laudable. He deserves to be thoroughly spanked.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#213

Post by yourapostasy »

Slippery_John wrote: post #167
bagacrap wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that even mean? Placing an order doesn't magically solve production shortages.

It protects the manufacturer against ramping up supply only for demand to suddenly disappear.

A one-time order isn't what that company is looking for. They're only responding to hospitals that sign onto a five-year contract, for example. Likely the only way to get to the front of the line with him now is to have an authorized 10-year contract signed by the board of directors with a capped total, with an attached note, "fill in your price, up to this amount", handed over face-to-face by the customer's CEO stepping into the factory.

Even that isn't really sufficient. Looking at the capex depreciation table [1], he'll only depreciate the new machinery in five years, and likely still be paying a note on it. Commercial industrial/flex space leases in the DFW area where he's near are typically around 3-5 years. After all is said and done, he's likely roughly breaking even, and not netting a giant personal profit at the other end.

He needs the Federal and state governments committing to evergreen disaster preparedness on a decades-long timescale. That takes much more than stockpiling.

[1] https://cs.thomsonreuters.com/ua/fixa/cs_us_en/ass_life_tbl/...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#214

Post by dredmorbius »

WalterBright wrote: post #143
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We keep a MASSIVE oversupply surplus for the military at all times. If that's OK, why not do that for health related issues too?

> We keep a MASSIVE oversupply surplus for the military at all times. If that's OK, why not do that for health related issues too? When your military isn't strong enough, you get fire, rape, pillage, death, starvation and epidemics, and people really really don't like that.

Or miscellaneous actors stepping on your oil supply lines and shipping traffic.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#215

Post by babesh »

smacktoward wrote: post #180
babesh wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did no one bother to actually read the article? It says that there can potentially be a shortage but that there isn't currently. The fed has 13000 and the military an extra 2000. It currently seems more hamstrung by bureaucracy or lack of information. Hospitals have to request their state governments which have to then request them from the federal government. Only one state has requested them so far. "“We have recei…

The problem is that, if you wait to act until the shortage is actually upon you, you’ll act too late. These things take time to make and distribute. You have to act before the tidal wave hits if you want to have them in place when it does.

The first problem to solve is information and distribution. Get organized quickly first so that hospitals know that they can request them and that their requests are quickly met.

This double request structure is stupid.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#216

Post by leereeves »

mlb_hn wrote: post #211
leereeves wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world's response was late because the Chinese government lied about the virus. Just two months ago the WHO, relying on China's statements, said: > Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China[1] Two months ago the WHO said they didn't have clear evidence coronavirus was…

Leadership in the US Government wasted a lot of time trying to play down the pandemic [1] as did large (conservative) news organizations [2]. Both are now trying to blame China, arguably to shift blame from themselves. It didn't need to be that way; South Korea's government action back in January helped them while the US Government's action hindered response [3]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-c…

Everyone should be blaming China. They jailed the doctor who tried to warn us. They lied to the world. They "issued an order to hospitals, clinics and other healthcare units strictly prohibiting the release of any information about treatment of this new disease."[1]

That's not about shifting blame from the US government. That's placing the blame where it belongs.

As the famously conservative editorial board of the Washington Post said:[1]

> China tried to keep a lid on the coronavirus. It put everyone at risk.

1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/chin...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#217

Post by WalterBright »

manigandham wrote: post #200
WalterBright wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM should just start the process of making them anyway.

There are medical equipment manufacturers better suited for this role. GM is a last resort and this is more of a symbolic gesture.

Live saving ventilators of various designs have been around a long time:

http://rc.rcjournal.com/content/56/8/1170

A ventilator that saves lives does not need to be the latest, most sophisticated technology, especially when the alternative is death.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#219

Post by dang »

whiddershins wrote: post #132
thereare5lights wrote: post #67

> There are going to be a lot of comments about how we messed up, wasted time, etc., but they miss the point. That, ironically, misses the point of the existing comments about how we wasted time. By wasting time, lots of people are going to die that didn't need to die. None of that has to do with mobilization itself or the issues that we run into during mobilization, it has to do with when we decided to mobilize.

Oh, wait. Hold on. There was a time where people weren’t perfect? And by perfect, I of course mean perfect judged by hindsight. That’s just ... I mean .. people should be perfect! And prescient! Good point.

Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamewar comments to HN. You've done that repeatedly lately (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22586334) and we ban accounts that do this.

If you wouldn't mind, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post only in the intended spirit of the site—especially now, when stress is running high and likely to get higher.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#220

Post by lutorm »

jacquesm wrote: post #182
spectramax wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the healthcare system and medical supply chain are two separate things. A universal healthcare system (for E.g. Sweden) still has a normal supply chain. The only difference is the profit motives are not present and the government can effectively pump money in without violating economic principles of supply/demand and pricing.

A commercialized health care system has lots of perverse incentives leading to price increases and profiteering. This sets the weakest fraction of the population up for losing all they've built up in the last 3 months of their life while barely impacting the strong. It also means that those hospitals don't care about overpaying for their supplies and medication (but not their workforce) because they get to pass those…

A commercialized health care system also has absolutely no incentive to keep excess capacity for emergencies. It seems to be very good at finding the optimal efficiency point, which essentially is very close to "no unused resources in the nimal situation". But societal resiliency requires that health care, utilities, food supply, etc, has some excess capacity just because at some point something will happen. A public system can at least be responsive to the value society puts on resiliency.
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