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Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

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Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#441

Post by antepodius »

motohagiography wrote: post #105

Making creators accountable to bureaucratic values using cynical techniques like whisper campaigns and deplatforming will destroy the culture and technologies it produced. FOSS was started as a divergence from corporate bureaucratic software, and now political bureaucracy is coopting and subverting it. An intolerant minority is poisoning the well of creativity in multiple disciplines by subverting the organizations t…

Or we need a cycle of a band of foul-mouthed non-agreeable assholes breaking off from the stale norm and creating a programming counterculture that goes on to revolutionize the world before being taken over by entryists who grind its culture back in to placid oppressive normalcy, upon which a band of foul-mouthed non-agreeable assholes break off and...

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#442

Post by antepodius »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #241

The enthusiasm for shaming in this mail from the thread makes my stomach turn. They seem to be either blissfully unaware or malevolently aware that it would lead to more marginalization, not less: https://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-discuss_lists... "This special exception makes clear who the community considers a bad actor and initially imposes greater obligations on them than anyone else. [....] As in th…

There's no greater feeling than the crunch of the bones of the unworthy beneath your heel.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#443

Post by antepodius »

aliakhtar wrote: post #398
jshevek wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a problem with an individual that discloses a mental illness. I do see a problem with a subculture that celebrates mental illness.

Why? Mental illnesses are not a choice, so its not others will start getting mental illnesses if its celebrated. But if you're successful despite a mental illness (by any measure of success), its worth celebrating that so others with that condition can see it can be overcome. And it'll help reduce stigma.

>so its not others will start getting mental illnesses if its celebrated

If you celebrate mental illness itself, fetishise it, blast out images of good-looking successful people with SHE'S BIPOLAR next to it, people will emulate it. It's fashion. It's what we do with everything.

The way mental illnesses are 'discovered' and grouped, as best as I can tell from what I've heard psychologists talk about it, is by a duck method. If it looks, talks, walks like depression, we'll call it that. The actual underlying causal networks are yet mostly mysterious, so they're not the basis of the defintions. The way they're defined is basically behavioural.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#444

Post by antepodius »

pessimizer wrote: post #211
m0zg wrote: post #96

And that's why political activist infestations should be dealt with quickly and forcefully, before they get a chance to fester and take over the host. ESR: "The effect – the intended effect – is to diminish the prestige and autonomy of people who do the work – write the code – in favor of self-appointed tone-policers. In the process, the freedom to speak necessary truths even when the manner in which they are express…

The OSI is a political activist organization.

Cancer can get cancer; parasites can get parasites.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#445

Post by fourthark »

zozbot234 wrote: post #256
jshevek wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I glanced at the OSI page. I found someone who overtly stated opposition to core FLOSS principals: > "Giving everyone freedom means giving evil people freedom, too." (OSD FAQ) It doesn't have to be like this. It's time to stop bad actors from using our work in unethical ways. It's time to give open source developers around the world the tools they need to exercise their ethical responsibilities as engineers and membe…

Yup, that's C. A. Ehmke. I'm not sure why she's so opposed to core FLOSS principles, even going as far as calling them evil and unethical; I feel like we're all circling back somehow to the bad old "Linux is cancer" attitudes from the 1990s.

FWIW this looks like her current summary of the situation:

https://where.coraline.codes/blog/ethical-source-osi-electio...

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#446

Post by NotSammyHagar »

CRConrad wrote: post #413
latk wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESR was not banned for having the wrong opinion – many others expressed similar opinions both before and after his messages. But ESR, over the course of a few days where he returned to the mailing list, was increasingly unable to express those opinions in a professional manner. While the moderators never stated their rationale, an unfortunate combination of off-list and on-list replies leaked one of ESR's blocked ema…

So, you’re saying “toxic loonytoon” is what got him banned? And the same adversary behind it as behind so many other similar bannings and near-bannings over the last few years. Does this person actually contribute anything _besides_ tone policing to the many communities they tone police? It's beginning to feel like his characterization may well be defensible on the grounds of truthfulness.

maybe it was ratf*cker. He then going off saying if you don't let me say my words, the world is doomed. It seems it wasn't the first time he did this.

Re: Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond

#447

Post by NotSammyHagar »

atq2119 wrote: post #373
asveikau wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider it a power grab sooner than, say, people acting in good faith who really believe in their stated values?

From the description, this sounds like a permanent ban, which is a really blunt tool -- and overly convenient, given how controversial ESR is. Keep in mind that this is about a discussion that's not in a technical, but in a political forum. After all, the OSI is a political institution, not a technical one. If people are acting in good faith, I would expect at most something temporary. This points at what I consider…

OSI is also a technical institution. Why is he controversial then? It's because of his statements.
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