Why N95 masks are hard to make • Hacker News Board

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#281

Post by jaclaz » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:14 PM UTC

davidgould wrote: post #215

droithomme wrote: post #9

I made a dozen good homemade masks in a few hours, and I am inept at sewing. With some practice I could make 200 a day. There's no point to doing so, it would be illegal for me to sell them. US is doing nothing whatsoever to ramp up mask or ventilator production. It's going to result in a lot of deaths.

Please share a pattern or document how you did this, I'd be very interested in making some for people around me.

>Please share a pattern or document how you did this, I'd be very interested in making some for people around me.

The Hong Kong kind is simple enough (and it also suggests a transparent shield):

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/artic...

Video on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjpH5lBZ8w

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#282

Post by ardy42 » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:16 PM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

> I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base.

3M and Prestige Ameritech are the only companies with the ability to manufacturing N95 masks in the US from US sourced materials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/shortages-confusion-an...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/15/coronavir...

Totally agree with you on manufacturing. It's super important to have this kind of domestic manufacturing capability, because trade links break down in a crisis like this. The US is short on supply and can't import more (other countries are banning exports to conserve supply for domestic needs). If all the manufacturing capability had been outsourced, US healthcare workers would be in even worse shape.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#283

Post by dfc » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #133

arcticbull wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project. The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work. Why pay them to do…

Because to me, the consumer, I can't think of a single time automation replacing humans has been better. Self checkouts suck for anything more than a handful of items, especially compared to a well trained cashier/bagger combo. Automated call/IVR systems are hypertension inducing bad. ATMs are no replacement for tellers for most situations that bring one to the bank. I'm not a complete luddite. In many systems, speci…

I am really surprised you can't think of one time automation beats manual work. I could sit here all day:

Municipal water service versus hand pumped well

E-ZPass versus tollbooth attendant.

Festool Domino biscuit jointer versus me doing it by hand

Sheetrock versus plaster and lathe

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#284

Post by vonmoltke » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #223

snowwrestler wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No country has the manufacturing base to meet the demand for these masks under a pandemic, not even China. That’s what the article is all about. Your thoughts on the merits of trade wars are not applicable.

The US is having trouble making enough masks to meet its normal day-to-day demand for them, let alone the increase from a pandemic, because almost all the mask production has been outsourced to China and they're redirecting the entire output to local use. That's an issue and it's a reason why the US might want extremely substantial tariffs or even quotas on mask imports in normal circumstances.

No, it wasn't. 3M has been making their N95 respirators in the US the whole time. It was cheaper masks (e.g., dust masks, procedure masks) that had their production outsourced.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#285

Post by restalis » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #133

arcticbull wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project. The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work. Why pay them to do…

Because to me, the consumer, I can't think of a single time automation replacing humans has been better. Self checkouts suck for anything more than a handful of items, especially compared to a well trained cashier/bagger combo. Automated call/IVR systems are hypertension inducing bad. ATMs are no replacement for tellers for most situations that bring one to the bank. I'm not a complete luddite. In many systems, speci…

Areas involving human interaction may indeed risk a decline in the provided (or at least perceived) quality when automated, compared to its non-automated best case scenario. However, aside from possible technical issues (that may also affect human-involved setups), machines avoid a broad range of problems (some mentioned in sibling posts) that otherwise affect clients' interacting experience, and thus (more often than not) are the better choice.

P.S.: I don't miss nowadays the increase of human-induced Coronavirus infection risk when I experience human-free services.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#286

Post by cultus » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #146

ardit33 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rome was a "superpower" militarily but it couldn't feed itself, and had to rely on grain from Egypt and the fertile crescent to feed its population..... Here we can't produce some basic silly things... as it is not that economical during normal times... Perhaps farming subsides are not a crazy type of idea after all.

Farming subsidies for food. Not a bad idea. Subsidizing overproduction of ethanol is another issue.

Farming subsidies for food systematically cause overproduction. This is problematic environmentally for land use and climate. It also accelerates soil depletion and salinification.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#287

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #266

raxxorrax wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, she exists... I think she is just half bad and predictable but I don't think it is the best argument for the condition of the commission. This XY vs Trump shit isn't very convincing and I do believe that it is pretty though for people really caring about politics. The cureVac thing is suspicious as there are conflicting reports.

One such “conflicting report” is CureVac themselves[0]: > To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press. Oh sure, the original articles have been updated, but still the myth remains. Funny how that works. 0: https://mobile.twitt…

Yes, that is what I was hinting at. Of course they could lie in the interest of a possible business relationship, but I see no evidence of this. I wonder how the rumor started.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#288

Post by rwmurrayVT » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #270

hguant wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a conversation I had at a New Year's party not too long ago - a gentleman I'd never met before and I got to talking, and in the process of getting to know one another (however much you can know someone after 4-5 drinks at a black tie party you go to once a year), he bemoaned the issues he was having trying to open a US branch of his company. Apparently medium scale sheet metal forming operations in…

>Apparently medium scale sheet metal forming operations in the States have all but disappeared - everything is either outsourced to China, or is small scale, high precision work that can't meet demand of more than N hundred pieces a week. I can personally confirm this. Very unfortunate, and I'm positive it's helping stifle innovation. Having to go to China for your custom sheet metal needs (with the communication dif…

You can get custom sheet metal work, if you're willing the pay the price and possibly are in the right industry. Sheet metal, welding, carpentry, pipefitters, and pretty much every trade are in massive demand in shipbuilding/repair.

NNSY fails a significant portion of welder applicants just because they can't lay a proper weld. They pay... a lot of money.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#289

Post by Dahoon » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #201

Paperweight wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly-automated, "clean" manufacturing is all well and good for billion-dollar highly-capitalized, politically-sheltered megafactories, but what about the other 90% of manufacturers? Manufacturing is a dirty, dangerous, manual business. I think the small guys will tell you that environmental regulations killed manufacturing in the west, not labour costs. We've been living in lala land with it all offshore, out of si…

>Manufacturing is a dirty, dangerous, manual business. It can be, but it can also be clean, safe and highly automated. Fly-by-night operators that run dirty and dangerous shops are not the basis of a sustainable manufacturing economy. China is just damned good at manufacturing. They have everything that is needed - skills, capital, logistics - at an immense scale. They don't offer a cheap but inferior substitute for…

Unlike most other nations. I wish more people knew this and the impact it has. maybe we wouldn't see Trump win again then (as we will).

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#290

Post by snarf21 » Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #279

snarf21 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the conundrum. People want manufacturing here and also want it to be super high paying with skills learned in a few days. People also want to buy things at the dollar store. If all the things at the dollar store were made by US workers, there wouldn't be dollar stores. Dollar stores exploded after Clinton opened up trade with China. Want people really want is buying power even if they don't understand it. It…

> It is also why I personally feel we are better off with removing all wage taxes on the poor than trying to push minimum wage higher and higher. Confused, are you under the impression the entirety of everyone's wages is taxed in the United States? P.S. On your larger point: I'm not sure in what world you think 0% tax is a substitute for minimum wage. It certainly does not prevent you from earning atrociously low wag…

To be fair, I never said get rid of minimum wage. I was talking about pushing it up to things like $20. The point I was trying to make is that if you go too high, you cause people to just up tax brackets and higher costs at the places they shop because those workers are also making $20/hour now too. Some people think tools like EITC helps the poor more than pushing minimum wage up and I tend to agree. I don't think EITC goes far enough and I would remove all federal taxes for people who earn less than some $X/year.