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Why N95 masks are hard to make

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Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#181

Post by doodlebugging »

zhte415 wrote: post #167
doodlebugging wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that microwaving a used mask could also be an effective way to sterilize the mask. (0) I found this information by following links from the CDC website a few weeks ago when I was exploring the possibility of buying masks for my family and found that they were already being hawked online at ridiculous prices. Perhaps steam and/or use of a pressure cooker could also be effective. Many people who do home canni…

Do not steam them. That breaks down the layers in the mask. Certainly do not pressure cook them.

The article that I linked specifically investigated the use of steamer bags in a microwave for purposes of sterilization. They showed it to be a viable method if I read it correctly.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#182

Post by gauravjain13 »

jdietrich wrote: post #155
echelon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the workers being replaced by automation and having to rely on "gig economy" work could pursue manufacturing instead. We have the workforce. We can pay workers livable wages and give them meaningful work. Cost of goods could be reduced through greater efficiency. Research into robotics and automation could fuel a new decade of American growth.

>We have the workforce. That's the problem - you don't. By definition, the kind of efficient, highly-automated manufacturing you're thinking of doesn't need many unskilled or semi-skilled workers, but it does need skilled and experienced engineers and machinists. It needs a massive and complex ecosystem of suppliers and support. The depletion of America's industrial base has created a massive skills gap that would ta…

This, exactly. America has manufacturing talent, but not at the scale required for a manufacturing economy. (Source: ~2 decades in global manufacturing.)

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#183

Post by _2d30 »

sneak wrote: post #148
_2d30 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the post-national view is that it has to be a consensus view globally. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. It has to begin with everyone respecting broadly the same general ethics and views on rights. As it turns out, there are countries where women aren't allowed to drive, where religious autocracies rule, where whole populations of religious minorities are imprisoned and enslaved and the people of t…

The problem is that values are not evenly distributed within a country. A nation is not a useful or even approximate proxy for values. Most countries have a pretty big chunk of people in them that would be fine with a religious autocracy that enslaves those who don’t conform to the majority, the US included. It’s the same in every country. There are, for example, a whole bunch of people in the US who are fine with so…

> A nation is not a useful or even approximate proxy for values.

I bet you anything that if you polled Saudi Arabians and asked "Would you be willing to be ruled by a monarch?" and then do the same for Americans, you'll get wildly different results. If you are willing to make the bet large enough, I will go to relevant polling organizations to pay for one to be conducted.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#184

Post by aaavl2821 »

doodlebugging wrote: post #170
paulmd wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I suppose it’s an interesting academic discussion, frankly the idea of being able to safely contain an aerosolized upper respiratory disease at home is ludicrous to begin with, so it doesn’t really matter. The simple truth of the matter is that if you are in a home or apartment with an infected person, and you remain present during their period of high viral shedding, you’re practically certain to contract it a…

I am going to use recent personal experience to disagree with your conclusion that uninfected people in a house with someone who is infected cannot protect themselves and will end up sick. This past December, in the week before Christmas, my wife had surgery that required an overnight stay. She was released with instructions to avoid laughing, coughing, no physical activity, etc. for several weeks. A couple days afte…

All of the things you've said about mask functionality, reusability and sterilization are very interesting. As is your experience with in-home caregiving.

Is there a quick, effective and easy sanitizing protocol for N95 masks that you think would work for hospitals that are short on masks?

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#185

Post by dillondoyle »

jennyyang wrote: post #115
chuckledog wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is quite is quite a bit of information readily available about sterilizing disposable N95 masks with UV-C light. While not nearly as good as a fresh mask, this might be a preferable alternative to reusing the same mask unsterilized. https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(18)30140-8/pd... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/ https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/can-uv-light-disi...…

We actually bought 2 UVC light bulbs just to sterilize my masks. We only have a handful, and believed early on that UVC could make them reusable, but have no proof. But using them is very hard. They produce ozone which is harmful to your lungs, and the light themselves are harmful to your eyes and skin. So I don't have a safe way to set this up yet. Now that we are all quarantined maybe we can have more time to figur…

I put mine on my back entrance which is basically open air. Close door with cord under it. Able to plug it in without being able to see it and ozone spews out to pollute my city even more..

Do you know how long of an exposure is needed to be effective? assuming within 2-3 feet but single source not even light

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#186

Post by katbyte »

axaxs wrote: post #133
arcticbull wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project. The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work. Why pay them to do…

Because to me, the consumer, I can't think of a single time automation replacing humans has been better. Self checkouts suck for anything more than a handful of items, especially compared to a well trained cashier/bagger combo. Automated call/IVR systems are hypertension inducing bad. ATMs are no replacement for tellers for most situations that bring one to the bank. I'm not a complete luddite. In many systems, speci…

That’s you bud, I prefer the self check out every time, most visits to the bank are for the atm and if ai driven Uber cars were a thing I’d prefer them to. (I can agree about ivrs thou, those can die a fiery death)

We all have difference preferences so don’t attribute yours to others.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#187

Post by kkarakk »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #166

Not all masks are N95 people. It's crazy the amount of grandstanding and virtue signaling going on here. I have had a P100 mask for years with filters in stock, and I am wearing it out on town if I have to. https://www.coopersafety.com/respirator-types

P100 doesn't stop coronavirus...

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#188

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

blackrock wrote: post #152
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is down to ~8000 COVID patients, so that number is actually fine. It's supplying the rest of the world that's the problem. http://ncov.dxy.cn/ncovh5/view/pneumonia

Based on the article’s last line, the problem is that it is very difficult to make a profit on masks. When this thing blows over, no one will buy an N95 mask anymore, and the capital investment will have been wasted, and possibly never be recovered. Probably the only people making any real money on masks are the hoarders, that collect and sell it for triple the price.

I'd imagine (or at least hope) a lot of governments and hospitals around the world will be building up stockpiles after this all blows over.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#189

Post by eitland »

axaxs wrote: post #133
arcticbull wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project. The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work. Why pay them to do…

Because to me, the consumer, I can't think of a single time automation replacing humans has been better. Self checkouts suck for anything more than a handful of items, especially compared to a well trained cashier/bagger combo. Automated call/IVR systems are hypertension inducing bad. ATMs are no replacement for tellers for most situations that bring one to the bank. I'm not a complete luddite. In many systems, speci…

> Because to me, the consumer, I can't think of a single time automation replacing humans has been better.

Let me mention one then: ATMs.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#190

Post by doodlebugging »

aaavl2821 wrote: post #184
doodlebugging wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to use recent personal experience to disagree with your conclusion that uninfected people in a house with someone who is infected cannot protect themselves and will end up sick. This past December, in the week before Christmas, my wife had surgery that required an overnight stay. She was released with instructions to avoid laughing, coughing, no physical activity, etc. for several weeks. A couple days afte…

All of the things you've said about mask functionality, reusability and sterilization are very interesting. As is your experience with in-home caregiving. Is there a quick, effective and easy sanitizing protocol for N95 masks that you think would work for hospitals that are short on masks?

One of the first articles that I read mentioned the use of autoclaves, essentially steamers used for sterilizing surgical tools, etc. I think it was a NIOSH article. These are already in use in hospitals.

That led me to the article I linked about using microwaves. Microwave ovens excite water molecules to cook and the creation of steam from the cooking process should kill the pathogens.

I have family members who need some protection from this threat and that is why I went down this rabbit hole in the first place.

Based on everything I read I am comfortable concluding that masks can be reused if they are sanitized by microwaving with a small amount of water to create steam.

The methods tested in the paper appear to show effectiveness that maintains N95 rating and kills pathogens in the process.

I am not a doctor and in fact I spend too much of my time trying to avoid ever seeing one.

Perhaps you or someone else out there can recreate these tests or conduct similar tests to determine whether this is viable.

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