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Why N95 masks are hard to make

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Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#141

Post by function_seven »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #136
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

When you say that the US needs to "invest in itself", what you really mean is that the US needs to divert investments from industries in which it has a comparative advantage into industries that developing countries have a comparative advantage in.

The current situation is showing us that the comparative advantage may not be as great as we thought it was for overseas manufacturing.

When doing the arithmetic, a term for “national security” may have been underweighted or entirely left out.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#142

Post by jyrkesh »

nerfhammer wrote: post #114
muzani wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought N95 masks a few times. It was pricey - about as much as a latte. I can't afford that every day, so I recycled the mask a few times. (This was not for COVID-19, but some other issues when my wife was in ICU and air pollution issues) China can export those masks if they're not using them. Right now it's printing money. But even when this pandemic blows over, they'll still sell for a good price in countries wit…

they're not nearly as expensive each if you buy a box of them. I think it used to cost like $12 for 2 or $16 for 10, speaking in the before-time of course.

Eh, not in the US. I bought a 10 pack of 3M N95s last April in anticipation of forest fires that had screwed up air quality the last two years. They were $40 for the 10, so roughly the price of a latte per day.

Fortunately, the fires didn't happen, so I now have 10 masks, but I have absolutely no idea when/how the right time to bring use them is, and I'm doubtful that 10 would make the difference (my local healthy community is currently well stocked even if there's no available at retail).

Also to those wondering, the CDC says that, when worn correctly and while limiting adjustments, N95 masks can last up to 8 hours of continuous use for disease prevention. So yes, it's basically a 1-a-day thing.

EDIT: Forgot to add the citation

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguid...

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#143

Post by _2d30 »

sneak wrote: post #135
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

A much simpler option would to stop seeing the world as “them” and “us” and de-emphasize the borders in general. It would be great if it were illegal to control the flows of inputs to and outputs from manufacturing, but I doubt national leaders hellbent on playing the blame game and prioritizing some lives/prosperity over others simply based on the accident of birthplace would ever give up that sort of control they n…

The problem with the post-national view is that it has to be a consensus view globally. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma.

It has to begin with everyone respecting broadly the same general ethics and views on rights. As it turns out, there are countries where women aren't allowed to drive, where religious autocracies rule, where whole populations of religious minorities are imprisoned and enslaved and the people of those countries support it happily. Do you want people with those values having a say in how you live? I don't.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#144

Post by Arbalest »

jhpriestley wrote: post #61
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

Stockpiling essential medical equipment sounds a lot cheaper than autarky.

Fair comment really. People are taking the worst case and running with it. Really governments should have had more forethought to make preparations while things were still good. Attempting self sufficiency sounds more like a post apocalyptic requirement, which given the circumstance is an easy trap to fall into. Though there's always the blindspot: not all futures are predictable. Just that this one mostly was.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#145

Post by dntrkv »

droithomme wrote: post #31
dang wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't attack others like this on HN. If someone is wrong, it's enough to provide correct information. Lashing out or trying to punish is harmful in more than one way: it damages the container and discredits the truth. (On the last point see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

You should seek help.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#146

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

ardit33 wrote: post #62
bamboozled wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A “superpower” who can’t seem make enough masks to protect its own medical professionals from a pandemic. It’s an interesting situation.

Rome was a "superpower" militarily but it couldn't feed itself, and had to rely on grain from Egypt and the fertile crescent to feed its population..... Here we can't produce some basic silly things... as it is not that economical during normal times... Perhaps farming subsides are not a crazy type of idea after all.

Farming subsidies for food. Not a bad idea. Subsidizing overproduction of ethanol is another issue.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#147

Post by roel_v »

SirLuxuryYacht wrote: post #101
doodlebugging wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that microwaving a used mask could also be an effective way to sterilize the mask. (0) I found this information by following links from the CDC website a few weeks ago when I was exploring the possibility of buying masks for my family and found that they were already being hawked online at ridiculous prices. Perhaps steam and/or use of a pressure cooker could also be effective. Many people who do home canni…

This[0] article goes over recommendations for extended use, reuse, and risks. It also has a healthy list of references, some of which are by Fisher et al., the author of the paper you linked. Most masks have a metal tab bending over the bridge of the nose, as well as metal staples for the elastic bands, which would prevent you from microwaving. Cartridge type filters would work though. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go…

"as well as metal staples for the elastic bands, which would prevent you from microwaving"

My microwave works fine with metal inside. Would only be a problem for some people.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#148

Post by sneak »

_2d30 wrote: post #143
sneak wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much simpler option would to stop seeing the world as “them” and “us” and de-emphasize the borders in general. It would be great if it were illegal to control the flows of inputs to and outputs from manufacturing, but I doubt national leaders hellbent on playing the blame game and prioritizing some lives/prosperity over others simply based on the accident of birthplace would ever give up that sort of control they n…

The problem with the post-national view is that it has to be a consensus view globally. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. It has to begin with everyone respecting broadly the same general ethics and views on rights. As it turns out, there are countries where women aren't allowed to drive, where religious autocracies rule, where whole populations of religious minorities are imprisoned and enslaved and the people of t…

The problem is that values are not evenly distributed within a country. A nation is not a useful or even approximate proxy for values.

Most countries have a pretty big chunk of people in them that would be fine with a religious autocracy that enslaves those who don’t conform to the majority, the US included. It’s the same in every country.

There are, for example, a whole bunch of people in the US who are fine with some fiercely racist and inhumane federal policies, such as running concentration camps wherein many children are raped and otherwise sexually abused.

Do you want people with those values having a say in how you live? I don't.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#149

Post by austhrow743 »

threatofrain wrote: post #86
droithomme wrote: post #2

Surgical and homemade masks are much better than nothing. And by better than nothing we mean reasonably effective. Going into close contact with a person who has a known transmissible respiratory illness? N95 is minimum if you are a professional. And get your union to scream bloody murder if you are not allowed this essential safety equipment, and put complaints in writing so your heirs can later sue to oblivion. Try…

I think people should be allowed to wear masks, but I think that a lot of this information, including a very full vision about what's going to happen in the next 6 months to 1 year, needs to come from CDC and other major institutions. Everyone on the ground having little ad hoc debates doesn't seem like it will converge onto a nationally organized solution. The fact that this is happening is symptomatic of the lack o…

CDC and other major institutions are looking out for the many not any one individual. They don't want there to be crazy private demand for masks competing with health care professionals.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#150

Post by drdeadringer »

axaxs wrote: post #133
arcticbull wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project. The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work. Why pay them to do…

Because to me, the consumer, I can't think of a single time automation replacing humans has been better. Self checkouts suck for anything more than a handful of items, especially compared to a well trained cashier/bagger combo. Automated call/IVR systems are hypertension inducing bad. ATMs are no replacement for tellers for most situations that bring one to the bank. I'm not a complete luddite. In many systems, speci…

I guess self-checkout is a matter of taste and/or opinion. Personally, I prefer it at the grocery store when I have the choice.
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