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Why N95 masks are hard to make

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Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#111

Post by nerfhammer »

chuckledog wrote: post #65
Leary wrote: post #26

"Currently, of the 200 million masks China makes a day, only 600,000 are N95 standard masks, used by medical personnel, according to the National Development and Reform Commission, a state planning body. " Wow, that is not enough.

There is quite is quite a bit of information readily available about sterilizing disposable N95 masks with UV-C light. While not nearly as good as a fresh mask, this might be a preferable alternative to reusing the same mask unsterilized. https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(18)30140-8/pd... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/ https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/can-uv-light-disi...…

the thing is these masks were not designed to be re-used in a mechanical sense. they eventually just fall apart. they were meant to be thrown out after being used.

still, one of them can last a few days in a pinch.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#112

Post by arcticbull »

echelon wrote: post #89
bootlooped wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you in once sentence say we can employ workers previously displaced by automation, and in the next sentence assert that we can produce these goods at a competitive price with automation?

I should proofread and given examples. Lack of caffeine from WFH isn't helping me. There are many types of automation. Grocery workers (cashiers, stockers) are replaced with robotics and self-checkout (which automates pricing and theft detection) that removes them from the equation. Automobile machinists and doctors are supplemented with robotics that let them do higher-precision work and avoid mundane and/or stressf…

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project.

The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work.

Why pay them to do a less efficient job, that they're not fulfilled by, to produce uncompetitive goods at an uncompetitive price?

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#113

Post by Scoundreller »

doodlebugging wrote: post #88
chuckledog wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is quite is quite a bit of information readily available about sterilizing disposable N95 masks with UV-C light. While not nearly as good as a fresh mask, this might be a preferable alternative to reusing the same mask unsterilized. https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(18)30140-8/pd... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/ https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/can-uv-light-disi...…

I believe that microwaving a used mask could also be an effective way to sterilize the mask. (0) I found this information by following links from the CDC website a few weeks ago when I was exploring the possibility of buying masks for my family and found that they were already being hawked online at ridiculous prices. Perhaps steam and/or use of a pressure cooker could also be effective. Many people who do home canni…

> Perhaps steam and/or use of a pressure cooker could also be effective. Many people who do home canning of food goods have a pressure cooker and are already familiar with usage and cleaning.

A pressure cooker is overkill. It's used in canning because you need to kill fungal/bacterial spores that can be very hardy pre-germination.

Viruses are amongst the easiest to "kill", and live bacteria somewhere in the middle.

I wonder how effective full sunlight is for masks and viruses. Say, 6 hours on each side.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#114

Post by nerfhammer »

muzani wrote: post #82
koolba wrote: post #4

> China now makes 200 million face masks a day — more than twenty times the amount it made at the start of February. That’s an insane number of masks. Does one in seven Chinese wear a fresh one every day ? Is this gonna be the new normal?

I bought N95 masks a few times. It was pricey - about as much as a latte. I can't afford that every day, so I recycled the mask a few times. (This was not for COVID-19, but some other issues when my wife was in ICU and air pollution issues) China can export those masks if they're not using them. Right now it's printing money. But even when this pandemic blows over, they'll still sell for a good price in countries wit…

they're not nearly as expensive each if you buy a box of them. I think it used to cost like $12 for 2 or $16 for 10, speaking in the before-time of course.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#115

Post by jennyyang »

chuckledog wrote: post #65
Leary wrote: post #26

"Currently, of the 200 million masks China makes a day, only 600,000 are N95 standard masks, used by medical personnel, according to the National Development and Reform Commission, a state planning body. " Wow, that is not enough.

There is quite is quite a bit of information readily available about sterilizing disposable N95 masks with UV-C light. While not nearly as good as a fresh mask, this might be a preferable alternative to reusing the same mask unsterilized. https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(18)30140-8/pd... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/ https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/can-uv-light-disi...…

We actually bought 2 UVC light bulbs just to sterilize my masks. We only have a handful, and believed early on that UVC could make them reusable, but have no proof.

But using them is very hard. They produce ozone which is harmful to your lungs, and the light themselves are harmful to your eyes and skin. So I don't have a safe way to set this up yet. Now that we are all quarantined maybe we can have more time to figure out a sustainable way to use it.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#116

Post by Scoundreller »

adrianN wrote: post #102
bootlooped wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wear an N95 mask sometimes in Asia, to mitigate the pollution. I didn't throw it away after each use. I imagine their use by medical professionals to be a much different case though. I think a lot of Asian people wore the cheap cloth ones. I have learned recently that these sometimes have replaceable inserts inside them.

The masks filter pollution about as effectively after prolonged use as when they're new. The problem for medical use is contamination with germs.

> The masks filter pollution about as effectively after prolonged use as when they're new.

Filters generally get better at filtering as they get dirty. A pore with a mountain of dirt/dust over it gets even better at only permitting gasses through. But that also means less and less flow, until you're letting nothing through at all.

I think the other problem for medical use is moisture buildup. A damp/wet/sweaty N95 doesn't let gasses through very well.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#117

Post by doodlebugging »

SirLuxuryYacht wrote: post #101
doodlebugging wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that microwaving a used mask could also be an effective way to sterilize the mask. (0) I found this information by following links from the CDC website a few weeks ago when I was exploring the possibility of buying masks for my family and found that they were already being hawked online at ridiculous prices. Perhaps steam and/or use of a pressure cooker could also be effective. Many people who do home canni…

This[0] article goes over recommendations for extended use, reuse, and risks. It also has a healthy list of references, some of which are by Fisher et al., the author of the paper you linked. Most masks have a metal tab bending over the bridge of the nose, as well as metal staples for the elastic bands, which would prevent you from microwaving. Cartridge type filters would work though. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go…

BTW, I think you hit the mother lode on links about potential decontamination methods. I need to read some of this for future reference. Thanks!

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#118

Post by ralph84 »

dehrmann wrote: post #98
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

> a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need It's a strong argument for diverse suppliers, but unless you're a major international player, you don't really have the need, and having redundant manufacturing gets expensive. Just look at people balking at the cost of switching away from Huawei (that's a name I haven't heard for a few weeks). >…

> Economic interdependence makes war a lot harder.

Citation needed. The American Revolutionary War, The American Civil War, WWI, WWII, just to name a few, all involved belligerents with significant economic interdependence.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#119

Post by tlrobinson »

arcticbull wrote: post #112
echelon wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should proofread and given examples. Lack of caffeine from WFH isn't helping me. There are many types of automation. Grocery workers (cashiers, stockers) are replaced with robotics and self-checkout (which automates pricing and theft detection) that removes them from the equation. Automobile machinists and doctors are supplemented with robotics that let them do higher-precision work and avoid mundane and/or stressf…

I don't understand why we insist on keeping people in jobs that can be automated. Let them go pursue something that's fulfilling. Not automating something that can be just to keep people doing jobs we don't need done is a fascinating make-work project. The displaced should be re-trained, provided meaningful opportunities, or yeah, paid basic income out of the money saved by them not going to work. Why pay them to do…

I’m not saying we should protect these jobs by law or anything, but I question whether work that can be automated can't be fulfilling.

I keep seeing these “Cafe X” robotic coffee bars in San Francisco. Surely some baristas find their job fulfilling, and some customers enjoy chatting with their human barista instead of a robot?

Personally I think I’d have a hard time feeling good about working on something that directly replaces human labor without much benefit other than profit.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#120

Post by adrianN »

gwright wrote: post #66
bitL wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surgical masks are protecting patients not doctors. Please educate yourself. "The coronavirus is an upper respiratory virus and a surgical mask does not protect you from that kind of virus,” he said. “In fact, when people buy up these masks and hoard these masks then they might not be available for healthcare providers to use for patient care.” He said surgical masks are more effective on people who are already infec…

> The coronavirus is an upper respiratory virus I thought it was a lower respiratory virus. I have no idea if that changes the efficacy of masks but...

Unlike with SARS there is a significant viral load in the upper respiratory tract too.
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