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Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

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Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#71

Post by ghastmaster »

Cogito wrote: post #67
ghastmaster wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is misinformation to blindly compare total deaths between two diseases like you are. mis•in•for•ma•tion ► n. Wrong information; false account or intelligence. n. Untrue or incorrect information. n. Information that is incorrect. I disagree.

Misinformation includes misleading information. Even if a statement is technically correct it can be designed to (or can accidentally) mislead people into coming to the wrong conclusion. From the start you were advocating the conclusion that this "will do just the same as any other flu" and then compared total deaths to date in support of that conclusion. The conclusion is misinformed because the comparison is not va…

You're logic causes panic that will lead to overwhelmed hospital systems and massive deaths. It is misinformation that should be squelched.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#72

Post by Someone1234 »

elcritch wrote: post #29
gentleman11 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the employees, it’s nice to be able to stay safe

Won’t they pretty much all get it eventually? The quarantine is more about reducing the rate of infection not preventing infection to reduce load on healthcare system.

Later is still safer. They're currently testing two anti-virus drugs that look promising, three different vaccines, and there are likely to be a major shortage of ventilators.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#73

Post by logicchains »

lmeyerov wrote: post #61
treparist wrote: post #53

Im really very tired of people who want to help me to save my life. I am not asking anybody to visit some places, but they don't want me to visit them too. And thats its basically a global hysteria, global stupidity and what happens when office have so much power to declare a lockdown. So so so stupid.

It isn't about you, especially if you're healthy and below 50. I do care about the people you'll help infect, including my wife who works in a hospital, the elderly in my home, my colleagues, my elderly parents, and plenty of other people I care about. I and others should absolutely go to bat for the health of their loved ones and dependents. It's disappointing technologists interested in building things doesn't get…

What about the people you care about who lose their jobs, get evicted, lose the businesses they spent years to build, suffer the permanent long-term effects of impoverishment (even temporary periods of unexpected unemployment still have a lasting negative effect on health outcomes)? Or maybe you're in the upper middle class, like most readers here, and don't know what life's like for the restaurant workers, hairdressers and the like who are about to lose their livelihoods.

The lockdown is essentially asking the younger generations to make a massive sacrifices to support the older generation that has demonstrated very little willingness to make sacrifices to support the younger generation (accept a slightly lower standard of living to fight climate change).

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#74

Post by BuckRogers »

treparist wrote: post #35
J_cst wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a dangerous understatement. Please think twice before spreading false information, especially in the current circumstances where misinformation kills for real. Be safe, ciao from Italy

My family still lives in Turin and mom work in hospital ;) So, i think i can write something down: The biggest problem is that C really affect old people. So, yes - old people die...thats terrible, nothing to say. BUT, mom hospital is overcrowded with just lay in bed, drink more and relax. Thats the only advice for now.

> if you are just lay in bed

That’s the most comforting thing I’ve read so far.

You’re good to relax in bed, until you can’t breathe. No need to panic until then.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#75

Post by Cogito »

ghastmaster wrote: post #71
Cogito wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misinformation includes misleading information. Even if a statement is technically correct it can be designed to (or can accidentally) mislead people into coming to the wrong conclusion. From the start you were advocating the conclusion that this "will do just the same as any other flu" and then compared total deaths to date in support of that conclusion. The conclusion is misinformed because the comparison is not va…

You're logic causes panic that will lead to overwhelmed hospital systems and massive deaths. It is misinformation that should be squelched.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

My point is that you should compare projected number of infections and deaths from COVID-19 to the flu.

If you do, it's clear that this is not just another flu.

I'm not sure what aspect of that will lead to overwhelmed hospital systems and massive deaths.

The advice I've been hearing is that

- if you have COVID-19 symptoms, self isolate (and lots of areas are moving to 'shelter in place' style restrictions in any case)

- if you are in an at-risk population, self isolate

- if you've been in contact with COVID-19, or travelled, self isolate

There is some concern over when to test, mostly because there is a shortage of kits in some places.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#76

Post by austhrow743 »

treparist wrote: post #68
austhrow743 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way to guarantee that you wont go to a hospital after getting sick. There's no guarantee you wont go to places afterwards that others have no choice to go to. It's not about saving you from yourself it's about saving others from you.

Maybe we should stop treating people like a child? Maybe we don't need to "save" "others" and they can take care of themselves? Maybe we can stop to rely on "something" and start to be more rational? And yee, it will be much better for the economy and much better for ourselves.

Adults don't go to the hospital? Fuck off troll.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#77

Post by __blockcipher__ »

BuckRogers wrote: post #74
treparist wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family still lives in Turin and mom work in hospital ;) So, i think i can write something down: The biggest problem is that C really affect old people. So, yes - old people die...thats terrible, nothing to say. BUT, mom hospital is overcrowded with just lay in bed, drink more and relax. Thats the only advice for now.

> if you are just lay in bed That’s the most comforting thing I’ve read so far. You’re good to relax in bed, until you can’t breathe. No need to panic until then.

If you drop your sarcastic veneer for a sec, I think in context what the GP said is entirely reasonable.

The panic and uproar around covid-19, while justified to an extent, will lead to a lot of otherwise-healthy, anxiety-ridden people to report to the hospital.

As a shitty anecdote, I remember in university getting really sick, where I was sick for 3-5 weeks straight and ny lungs felt scorched (using that word metaphorically, basically they hurt like a bitch). I didn’t go to the doctor because I never would go to the doctor for anything short of a dislocated shoulder, and there was definitely a period of several days where I had the same thought everyone has: “will I ever get better?”.

I did get better.

I know it’s a shitty anecdote, but the point I want to get across is some “normal” colds/strep/whatever that was can be really crippling, but because people aren’t trained to freak out the way they are with this one, a good portion of people will correctly stay home.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#78

Post by jlokier »

logicchains wrote: post #73
lmeyerov wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't about you, especially if you're healthy and below 50. I do care about the people you'll help infect, including my wife who works in a hospital, the elderly in my home, my colleagues, my elderly parents, and plenty of other people I care about. I and others should absolutely go to bat for the health of their loved ones and dependents. It's disappointing technologists interested in building things doesn't get…

What about the people you care about who lose their jobs, get evicted, lose the businesses they spent years to build, suffer the permanent long-term effects of impoverishment (even temporary periods of unexpected unemployment still have a lasting negative effect on health outcomes)? Or maybe you're in the upper middle class, like most readers here, and don't know what life's like for the restaurant workers, hairdress…

The older generation is not one homegeneous group.

There are a lot of impoverished older generation people. No cash, no house or no liquidity, tiny pension if that.

Those people are seriously at risk, and there is nothing they could have done for younger people along the lines you have described.

Do we treat the impoverished old like their lives don't matter as much, let them die because they happen to be in the same arbitrary statistical grouping as other, unrelated old people you feel could have sacrificed more?

Couldn't you come up with a fairer statistical grouping for "could have sacrificed more" at least, e.g. the rich?

The younger generation is not a homogeneous group either.

Among them are a lot of vulnerable young. People with respiratory problems, reduced lung function, among many other conditions, or lacking physical or mental capacity to look after themselves. Also every young person who needs hospital care for things like dialysis, when hospitals are unable to provide it.

Do we just not care about the physically vulnerable young either?

The lockdown is about protecting an extremely large number of vulnerable or unlucky people of all kinds. It's that simple.

Some of those are children, some young, more middle-aged, and most old, although we are currently not sure how the statistics pan out for middle-aged and below when hospitals are severely overrun.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#79

Post by pkaye »

manicdee wrote: post #12
pkaye wrote: post #4

I live close to that plant. I hope they don't just keep spreading that virus and negate the effort we are doing by the "shelter in place". I'm a dialysis patient myself and have no idea what this virus will do to me. I'll probably be cannon fodder if the health system is overloaded.

Are you in contact with people from the plant or do you use separate toilets, cafes, and supermarkets? Shelter in place is about preventing person-to-person spread of the disease through direct contact or via intermediary such as a bench, chair or physical currency. COVID-19 is not going to spread from the plant to your house without some kind of transmission mechanism.

I'm not in contact with people in the plant. I'm just not sure if they can maintain the social distancing with the number of workers in that plant. If they keep spreading the virus between themselves it means the shelter in place may need to extended longer because the cases keep increasing. I wish there was more extensive testing so we can assess how concerned we should be of community spread.
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