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Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

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Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#91

Post by koheripbal »

tyfon wrote: post #72
hyperion2010 wrote: post #36

This probably should have gone on the thread about flattening the curve not being enough. But. Where is the core team of 12 people plus 108 collaborators that should have been assembled a month and a half ago to figure out how to retune US manufacturing to start producing stripped down ICU beds and the supplies needed to keep them operational? This game is easy. The parameters are well understood. You could assign th…

In Norway at least it isn't the beds themselves that are the issue it's the infrastructure needed for this in the hospital rooms of which the most important seems to be oxygen outlets. I'm not sure how safe it is to hook up gas tanks directly to DIY respirators. Not that we are in a shortage yet, there are only 50 people hospitalised but it's expected to rise.

You cannot wait until the shortage hits to build more - obviously.

It will come very quickly.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#92

Post by koheripbal »

rhino369 wrote: post #60
hyperion2010 wrote: post #36

This probably should have gone on the thread about flattening the curve not being enough. But. Where is the core team of 12 people plus 108 collaborators that should have been assembled a month and a half ago to figure out how to retune US manufacturing to start producing stripped down ICU beds and the supplies needed to keep them operational? This game is easy. The parameters are well understood. You could assign th…

The beds aren't really anything special. "Beds" is code for capacity in an ICU ward with ICU level medical equipment and doctors/nurses trained to provide that level of care. Any hospital bed + a ventilator is probably good enough. Sounds like the government and hospitals are putting in orders wherever they can. But I imagine hospitals aren't going to buy slapped together untested products unless its really really ba…

There aren't nearly enough ventilators.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#93

Post by [deleted] »

adrianN wrote: post #70
rhino369 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beds aren't really anything special. "Beds" is code for capacity in an ICU ward with ICU level medical equipment and doctors/nurses trained to provide that level of care. Any hospital bed + a ventilator is probably good enough. Sounds like the government and hospitals are putting in orders wherever they can. But I imagine hospitals aren't going to buy slapped together untested products unless its really really ba…

It's going to be really really bad in a few weeks.

[deleted]

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#94

Post by koheripbal »

gentleman11 wrote: post #25
zackbloom wrote: post #7

If you're interested we are working on various mechanical ventilator designs which don't require actuators or electronics. There are actually devices like that in the market, you can learn more in our collaboration docs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R25O2mKT3TfSjXTmheGEevIk... Edit: Another design we're considering based on an Army prototype: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hcuu-55q2a3_-LmBwg0uBdgM... If y…

As a member of that group, I honestly wonder what use our work will be due to regulations. Most hospitals cannot use uncertified equipment or software. I think however that there might be a large policy shift where these projects may become acceptable for use after some new or temporary legislation in 1-2 months. At that time, the projects may be extremely valuable

...also, if China and Italy are any example, you might be taking care of mom/dad at home because the hospitals cannot accept any more patients.

...and at home, the FDA isn't there to tell you not to use your home-made respirator.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#95

Post by koheripbal »

sub7 wrote: post #68

Cool but almost all covid patients who get to a stage where they need ventilation need invasive, mechanical ventilation. NIV does not allow the lungs to clear fluid and mucus. It also allows the virus to spread via aerosol and infect anyone without full PPE in the vicinity.

How can it be modified to provide lung drainage?

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#96

Post by nicoburns »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #21
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #9

What we really need is a simple ventilator, designed by manufacturers who already know how to design and build these and produced at enormous scale using a shadow factory system similar to that developed in world war 2. In this model, the original manufacturer steps in to guide production, carry out quality control and probably supply the control electronics and software. All physical objects on which our civilisatio…

Devil's advocate: Why would a manufacturer consider damaging what is a potential mega cash cow? I read earlier that ventilators generally sell for $40-70,000USD to hospitals (who then go on to charge $20-40k for ventilator based treatment.) We're much better off right now with the government seizing the means of production and figuring out how to make as many as possible.

> Why would a manufacturer consider damaging what is a potential mega cash cow?

Why would we give them a choice?

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#97

Post by koheripbal »

threwr32424 wrote: post #67

For those of us outside the US/EU, can someone explain about the change in tone here on HN ? There was a similar post a few weeks back and top-voted comments were uniformly scornful about such DIY medical equipment, and about how a ventilator was just one component in the ICU ecosystem. Now, though, there is a complete 180 ? What gives ? There is also the question of supply-side issues - uCs and IC boards are overwhe…

HN has attracted a younger crowd over the last couple years.

They have a tendency of expressing and voting with their emotions.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#98

Post by sub7 »

koheripbal wrote: post #95
sub7 wrote: post #68

Cool but almost all covid patients who get to a stage where they need ventilation need invasive, mechanical ventilation. NIV does not allow the lungs to clear fluid and mucus. It also allows the virus to spread via aerosol and infect anyone without full PPE in the vicinity.

How can it be modified to provide lung drainage?

You can make a Philips cough assist type device which uses abrupt pressure changes to expel fluid. Need to be super careful with these you can do real damage if not used correctly.

Those are also nowhere near as effective as the real deal i.e. intubation where you stick a tube down the lungs that sucks out fluid and pushes in air.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#100

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

koheripbal wrote: post #90
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HI! I’m a robotics engineer with mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, Linux and embedded programming skills, and I have 8 3D printers at home including two Prusa printers, a high resolution resin printer, and a large format printer. I’d really like to help! But there’s no central organization for this. I think we have to quickly organize ourselves! If anyone has any ideas please add them here in these hack…

The bottleneck with distributing new ventilators isn't physically producing them - it is getting them tested and approved by the FDA. So the use-case here is people putting their loved ones on these ventilators at home because the hospitals are full (which is entirely possible). Ideally, we should be working with existing ventilator manufacturers in the US to have them increase their current output.

If that's the case we need a whole DIY course of treatment, not just the machine itself. Playing doctor with only the tools and none of the rest is going to be a losing game. :(
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