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Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

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Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#21

Post by shiftpgdn »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #9

What we really need is a simple ventilator, designed by manufacturers who already know how to design and build these and produced at enormous scale using a shadow factory system similar to that developed in world war 2. In this model, the original manufacturer steps in to guide production, carry out quality control and probably supply the control electronics and software. All physical objects on which our civilisatio…

Devil's advocate: Why would a manufacturer consider damaging what is a potential mega cash cow? I read earlier that ventilators generally sell for $40-70,000USD to hospitals (who then go on to charge $20-40k for ventilator based treatment.)

We're much better off right now with the government seizing the means of production and figuring out how to make as many as possible.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#22

Post by squidfish »

battery_cowboy wrote: post #15
rootedbox wrote: post #8

BEWARE: Even medical grade ventilator / CPAP is dangerous.

Understatement of the year, it's probably more dangerous to use these at home than just using simple oxygen and someone to help you remember to breathe for a few days. If you're to the point that you need a ventilator for covid-19, you're also going to need a ton of meds and attention from trained medical staff. I could see a CPAP machine being useful for lighter cases just to help out, but even then I'm not a doctor…

Yeah, I have news for you ... I'm slapping my CPAP on any family member in a medical crisis where their O2 is bottoming out (I have o2 monitor too .. cheap from amazon) that potentially may be coming. If they are unable to breathe and we can't get them medical help/ventilated, it is no brainer.

Here is my experience: CPAP (actual APAP) for a several years now. Godsend for me. Don't even nap without it. In addition to the sleep apnea and impact it had on my life and long term health, there has been one other remarkable benefit. I have had no lung issues (bronchitis, asthma, pneumonia or even just wheezing), since not long after started using. For decades prior (I'm 50 now), I had yearly bouts with bronchitis due to my mild asthma combined with allergy seasons, etc. I also had couple which progressed to pneumonia. I have had NONE of that since starting and we are on the 4th year now. The APAP helps expand lungs and breath deeply, in addition to the intended benefit of keeping my airway from collapsing / sleep apnea.

CPAPS aren't dangerous. I've already thought about scenario where I'd use it on loved one over past couple weeks (prior to reading this article). Damn believe I will if have to. Alternative is potentially death.

Yes, ventilator (to me implying being intubated) is of course totally different.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#23

Post by zdragnar »

pkaye wrote: post #20

Trump says the states are all on their own if they want to get ventilators. Looks like we better stock up on the Arduinos. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-to-Governors-on-Ve...

You are misquoting your own source:

"We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself."

The post-meeting press also asked him if that meant the feds wouldn't help, and he explicitly said no, that many states already have their own contracts and connections to various suppliers, and if they used those they would be better off buying direct rather than the federal government acting as a middle man for the same outcome.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#24

Post by souprock »

fencepost wrote: post #14
JshWright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, now how are you going to manage the countless other aspects of critical care? By the time you need a vent, you need a ton of other things as well.

100% this. I'd been curious why I wasn't seeing discussion of negative pressure ventilators, also known as iron lungs, but more recent commentary that I've seen notes that the positive pressure is needed in part to force oxygen into the blood. Apparently with Coronavirus sick lungs are wet lungs and wet lungs don't work as well. That would imply that you also are going to need a supply of oxygen at a higher concentra…

For wet lungs, the person should be upside down to allow drainage, as if doing a head stand. Of course this is not easy or comfortable, but it helps.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#25

Post by gentleman11 »

zackbloom wrote: post #7

If you're interested we are working on various mechanical ventilator designs which don't require actuators or electronics. There are actually devices like that in the market, you can learn more in our collaboration docs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R25O2mKT3TfSjXTmheGEevIk... Edit: Another design we're considering based on an Army prototype: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hcuu-55q2a3_-LmBwg0uBdgM... If y…

As a member of that group, I honestly wonder what use our work will be due to regulations. Most hospitals cannot use uncertified equipment or software. I think however that there might be a large policy shift where these projects may become acceptable for use after some new or temporary legislation in 1-2 months. At that time, the projects may be extremely valuable

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#26

Post by gentleman11 »

squidfish wrote: post #17

Actually, Resmed and Philips can probably reflash firmware on almost all there basic CPAP machines manufactured within past few years, thereby making them into BiPAP type devices. BiPAPs are sort of "in between" a CPAP and a ventilator. This would actually be a good public service if they would do for free and provide to hospitals, etc. for emergency use.

I hear a lot of CPAP owners hack their devices for privacy reasons. I wonder if just any technical user could do this today? What would be required?

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#27

Post by jdoss »

squidfish wrote: post #17

Actually, Resmed and Philips can probably reflash firmware on almost all there basic CPAP machines manufactured within past few years, thereby making them into BiPAP type devices. BiPAPs are sort of "in between" a CPAP and a ventilator. This would actually be a good public service if they would do for free and provide to hospitals, etc. for emergency use.

I was just thinking the same thing. My 5yo son has a wimpy immune system and asthma. We have spent some scary times in the ER/PICU when he gets a bad lung based cold. I am thinking about how I can convert one of my old CPAPs into a ventilator if I can't get him into a hospital to get the care he will need due to the healthcare system being overwhelmed. It should be obvious, but I will say it to be clear. This would be a last resort kind of thing on my end. The last thing I want to do is "wing it" with any kind of medical care on my kids.

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#28

Post by gentleman11 »

squidfish wrote: post #22
battery_cowboy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understatement of the year, it's probably more dangerous to use these at home than just using simple oxygen and someone to help you remember to breathe for a few days. If you're to the point that you need a ventilator for covid-19, you're also going to need a ton of meds and attention from trained medical staff. I could see a CPAP machine being useful for lighter cases just to help out, but even then I'm not a doctor…

Yeah, I have news for you ... I'm slapping my CPAP on any family member in a medical crisis where their O2 is bottoming out (I have o2 monitor too .. cheap from amazon) that potentially may be coming. If they are unable to breathe and we can't get them medical help/ventilated, it is no brainer. Here is my experience: CPAP (actual APAP) for a several years now. Godsend for me. Don't even nap without it. In addition to…

I have a spare cpap actually and parents with lung issues. How do you use a cpap to help someone if it came up?

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#29

Post by battery_cowboy »

squidfish wrote: post #22
battery_cowboy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understatement of the year, it's probably more dangerous to use these at home than just using simple oxygen and someone to help you remember to breathe for a few days. If you're to the point that you need a ventilator for covid-19, you're also going to need a ton of meds and attention from trained medical staff. I could see a CPAP machine being useful for lighter cases just to help out, but even then I'm not a doctor…

Yeah, I have news for you ... I'm slapping my CPAP on any family member in a medical crisis where their O2 is bottoming out (I have o2 monitor too .. cheap from amazon) that potentially may be coming. If they are unable to breathe and we can't get them medical help/ventilated, it is no brainer. Here is my experience: CPAP (actual APAP) for a several years now. Godsend for me. Don't even nap without it. In addition to…

So you agree with me...

Re: Low-Cost Arduino-Based Ventilator

#30

Post by gentleman11 »

ploika wrote: post #16
tw04 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death is also an easy way to hurt your lungs. I hope nobody is dumb enough to use something like this in place of visiting a hospital, but if hospitals are overrun this is better than nothing.

No, this is just something. This something is not necessarily better than nothing. It could be an awful lot worse than nothing, especially since it's coming from GitHub and not somewhere like the Red Cross or MSF, with experience of medical care in tough environments , that knows the difference between "actually better than nothing" and "just something".

Can anybody comment? How could it be worse than nothing, and is there a way to evaluate these designs? Imagine somebody had parents with lung issues and the hospitals were turning away old people with such conditions in 1-2 months
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