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NPM Is Joining GitHub

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Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#441

Post by nl »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #436
throwaway78359 wrote: post #232

Microsoftie here — throwaway for obvious reasons. Microsoft doesn’t do everything right but the GitHub acquisition has honestly gone better than I ever expected. Rather than forcing GitHub to adopt Microsoft centric policies, Microsoft has adopted more GitHub stuff, especially from a product POV. GitHub still runs as a separate company (different logins and health care and hiring systems) with its own policies and po…

Given that Microsoft for all intents and purposes killed Atom (along with their really promising xray project [0]) almost immediately after the acquisition [1] even after explicitly claiming they wouldn't [2], please excuse me for not seeing the GitHub acquisition in the same positive light. [0] https://github.com/atom-archive/xray [1] They never officially announced it, but they almost certainly de-staffed it to the…

I switched from Atom to VSCode well before the acquisition, and I personally know many others that did too.

What need does Atom fill that VSCode doesn't?

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#442

Post by kbumsik »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #436
throwaway78359 wrote: post #232

Microsoftie here — throwaway for obvious reasons. Microsoft doesn’t do everything right but the GitHub acquisition has honestly gone better than I ever expected. Rather than forcing GitHub to adopt Microsoft centric policies, Microsoft has adopted more GitHub stuff, especially from a product POV. GitHub still runs as a separate company (different logins and health care and hiring systems) with its own policies and po…

Given that Microsoft for all intents and purposes killed Atom (along with their really promising xray project [0]) almost immediately after the acquisition [1] even after explicitly claiming they wouldn't [2], please excuse me for not seeing the GitHub acquisition in the same positive light. [0] https://github.com/atom-archive/xray [1] They never officially announced it, but they almost certainly de-staffed it to the…

Please not call MS "killed" atom. Even before MS acquisition Atom was clearly losing in the competition.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#443

Post by manigandham »

sneak wrote: post #439
manigandham wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To keep this as straightforward as possible: Illegal immigration is a crime and is enforced just like any other. Committing crime can mean incarceration, which many US citizens face everyday. It has nothing to do with being a "danger", but when you don't have permission to even be in the country then there's no bail or other release possible. Also detainment centers are not cages but fenced areas with free movement i…

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sex... https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-buildi...

Bad people exist and bad things happen in every large organization in every government of every country. It is not representative nor useful in discussing the behavior of the whole.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#444

Post by arvinsim »

chaostheory wrote: post #203
franciscop wrote: post #26

I'm surprised there's not a single mention of "Microsoft" in this or the npm announcement [1], given the old-evil-history of Microsoft and the new-nice Microsoft we have today. I would expect that there was at least a mention, considering the reason that most modules in npm are still in ES5 is exactly because of the monopolistic practices that Microsoft followed back in the day which makes Internet Explorer still rel…

This is great news for people forced to use Windows. JavaScript being a 1st class citizen on MS platforms is being even more cemented. It'd be great if Microsoft moved faster with Python integration into the MS ecosystem like SQL Server.

Yup, currently MacOS is still better IMO for web development but I really would like MS to improve on that regard.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#445

Post by cortesoft »

nathcd wrote: post #78
cortesoft wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen to all the tech, equipment, and employees after the company goes out of business? We have to burn it? If we did that, it would be a crazy waste of resources. The alternative is to let another company buy the stuff... and if a company buys the failed company's tech, equipment, and hires their staff... that is basically the same as buying the company.

I mean, what would normally happen is employees look for new jobs, equipment is sold, and tech is thrown away (or open sourced in rare cases). Doesn't this already happen all the time?

It happens when no one wants the tech... but if it has value, it will be sold at liquidation time.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#446

Post by kmarlow »

thiagocesar wrote: post #433
manigandham wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need Azure to use any part of .NET - and VSCode, Github, etc., stretch beyond both.

That’s not what was said either. They said that .NET and Azure, two separate things, are very well managed. OP did not imply any correlation between the two of them.

My guess is that he is referring to Microsoft Azure's attempt to migrate to Javascript support. You can see some of the support, but it is still currently lacking and difficult to use. I hope that they can manage though, Azure has tremendous features, just challenging to utilize properly.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#447

Post by [deleted] »

mbesto wrote: post #252
K0nserv wrote: post #14

This seems like a good outcome overall. NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in. There are problems with more of the software ecosystem consolidating with a single entity but it still feels like an improvement.

> NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in. Why does NPM need to be funded as a commercial entity at all? What other open source library has a private company running its package manager? This one still boggles my mind.

[deleted]

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#448

Post by nl »

mbesto wrote: post #252
K0nserv wrote: post #14

This seems like a good outcome overall. NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in. There are problems with more of the software ecosystem consolidating with a single entity but it still feels like an improvement.

> NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in. Why does NPM need to be funded as a commercial entity at all? What other open source library has a private company running its package manager? This one still boggles my mind.

PyPy runs on donated infrastructure that costs over 800K/month in hosting costs[1].

Not many non-commercial entities can afford that.

[1] https://twitter.com/dstufft/status/1236331765846990848

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#449

Post by lewisl9029 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #440
lewisl9029 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that Microsoft for all intents and purposes killed Atom (along with their really promising xray project [0]) almost immediately after the acquisition [1] even after explicitly claiming they wouldn't [2], please excuse me for not seeing the GitHub acquisition in the same positive light. [0] https://github.com/atom-archive/xray [1] They never officially announced it, but they almost certainly de-staffed it to the…

Counter thesis: what "killed" Atom is the balance of user enthusiasm quickly shifting to VSCode. Well before the acquisition was even announced, VSCode started grabbing developer mindshare real, real fast. I remember being an Atom user who resisted that tide for a while, but it became pretty clear that VSCode was taking off like a rocket and Atom, well, wasn't. If commit activity graphs are really a meaningful measur…

It would be delusional of me to claim that VSCode wasn't already winning in terms of mindshare by a large margin when the acquisition happened. That's not what I'm claiming here.

Atom still had a healthy number of active contributors (presumably most of them were from GitHub) making improvements to the product on a daily basis to make it a perfectly viable tool for the people who chose to use it (and despite the much smaller developer base they continued to innovate with projects like xray and tree-sitter)... That is until the Microsoft acquisition happened.

Before anyone jumps in with the causation vs correlation argument, I think any reasonable person looking at the evidence would agree that the timing is convenient enough to make it highly unlikely to have been a coincidence, especially considering that most of those contributions were from employees at GitHub who were _getting paid to work on Atom_, so the only reasonable explanation for the contributions to stop abruptly within a month is that they _stopped getting paid to work on Atom_.

To add insult to injury they even had the audacity to claim they wouldn't do exactly what they did. That is the crux of my issue with how they handled this acquisition.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#450

Post by sverhagen »

thu2111 wrote: post #340
brunoborges wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every library out there is on Maven Central. Even Oracle JDBC drivers are now (finally) on Maven Central. If MC goes away as it exists today, the Java Ecosystem will take a huge hit as almost every open source project would stop building in CICD environments from the get-go.

If it vanished instantly then yes, but a huge number of packages on Central are mirrors from jcenter. There are not only theoretical competitors to Maven Central but an actual widely used one (jcenter/bintray), which is easier to use anyway. There's also jitpack too. So people could migrate pretty quickly to alternatives.

You're not technically wrong, but I bet that 90% of the projects or at least the examples have some sort of intentional or unintentional reliance on Maven Central, that would break the build if it weren't there. Even a lot of companies that set up internal repositories don't realize that they hit still are gonna hit Maven Central initially, before everything is bootstrapped, depending on how things are configured. It would reflect just really poorly on the Maven ecosystem (or any ecosystem alike, I have to assume, but know less about) if the canonical repository would just... "poof".
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