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NPM Is Joining GitHub

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Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#251

Post by [deleted] »

loudmax wrote: post #243
epicide wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a trustworthy Microsoft look like to you?

For most businesses, Microsoft still holds a monopoly position on desktop OSs. For a lot of smaller IT departments, this bleeds into back-end servers as well. Microsoft has the Windows Subsystem for Linux, allowing Linux binaries to run on Windows. How about the reverse? Get WINE to the point where Linux (or FreeBSD or some fully source OS) can reliably run Windows binaries. Along the same line, provide portable libr…

[deleted]

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#252

Post by mbesto »

K0nserv wrote: post #14

This seems like a good outcome overall. NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in. There are problems with more of the software ecosystem consolidating with a single entity but it still feels like an improvement.

> NPM being such an important pillar in the software supply chain while having an unviable business model and largely being funded by VC money was never a good position to be in.

Why does NPM need to be funded as a commercial entity at all? What other open source library has a private company running its package manager? This one still boggles my mind.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#253

Post by mbesto »

K0nserv wrote: post #185
sneak wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not consider the largest distributor of proprietary, closed-source spyware (Windows) owning the fastest growing open source package manager to be a good outcome, personally.

It depends on what the alternative is. When NPM starts running out of money to run the service what would happen? More VC, but only to a point and the firms would be increasingly be influencing NPM to make money by any means(probably not good for anyone but the firms). Alternatively a cash strapped NPM fails to invest in security and availability of the service leading to widespread outages or worse a large scale sup…

> It depends on what the alternative is.

Ruby Gems, PHP composer, PIP, etc. would all like a word with you....

https://rubygems.org/pages/sponsors

https://www.python.org/psf/

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#254

Post by yebyen »

adventured wrote: post #244
FooBarWidget wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that upper management doesn't consist of the same people as 15 years ago.

Most of Microsoft's anti-trust related behavior was in the 1990s. Closer to 25 years ago. Merely a quarter of a century. There's something hilariously farcical about holding a grudge toward Microsoft for a quarter of a century.

It's not so much a grudge as a reaction, call it an immuno-type response. I shed my MS-OS Windows Desktop addiction over 20 years ago to become a desktop Linux user and I still see my co-workers struggling every day with many of the same issues I haven't had to cope with anymore since then.

Ever since I have been able to get the Microsoft out of my systems, I find myself naturally predisposed to keep it out. I am not against Microsoft, I really am a fan of a lot of the open and developer-focused things they are doing, certainly not least of which is their support for Kubernetes through Azure, but this does not make me more receptive to going back to living in a Microsoft OS-flavored ecosystem today, it just is not happening for me and it's nothing to do with holding a grudge or similar.

I use a Mac now because it was provided by work, if they offer me a trade for a Windows machine I would probably consider it because of the progress made by WSL2, but our group policy lags somewhat behind and certainly not on insider ring, so none of my coworkers have been able to try WSL2 on their work-provided Windows machines, or likely will for some time, and that makes me seriously think twice about it.

My natural inclination is that I would much rather install Linux as the host OS so I have control over things like when updates get applied, or whether a reboot needs to take place immediately, in spite of the struggle that sometimes comes with that, it is really much better to have the source and keep the capability to control your own hardware. And then only run Windows in a VM whenever it is really needed. (In other words, to be able to occasionally run Windows apps in a similar way as I do when I have to use them on a Mac.)

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#255

Post by wongarsu »

K0nserv wrote: post #185
sneak wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not consider the largest distributor of proprietary, closed-source spyware (Windows) owning the fastest growing open source package manager to be a good outcome, personally.

It depends on what the alternative is. When NPM starts running out of money to run the service what would happen? More VC, but only to a point and the firms would be increasingly be influencing NPM to make money by any means(probably not good for anyone but the firms). Alternatively a cash strapped NPM fails to invest in security and availability of the service leading to widespread outages or worse a large scale sup…

Why would NPM run out of money? NPM is the primary vendor for worry-free distribution and management of private JavaScript packages for $7/month/user. In a time where bandwidth is basically free (outside AWS/Azure/GCP) that should surely pay for server costs and a handful of developers.

It probably isn't going to 20x VC money, but it sounds like it would be profitable to run as a business.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#256

Post by mbesto »

allover wrote: post #144
Supermancho wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't the only one. Most users are too young to understand how predatory Microsoft has always been. Can't wait for the "npm won't publish my package because it circumvents something in Windows" or whatever. Give it time.

Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past. And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong).

> Tbf Microsoft have won back a lot of good faith with developers due to projects like VS Code and TypeScript, even for those of us who remember their past.

Those are great until they're not. It's why it's called "bait and switch".

> And we're yet to hear of any negative impact of their Github acquisition (afaik - correct me if wrong).

ANY?! Heh, do a quick search just on HN and you'll find it pretty quickly.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#257

Post by haecceity »

franciscop wrote: post #26

I'm surprised there's not a single mention of "Microsoft" in this or the npm announcement [1], given the old-evil-history of Microsoft and the new-nice Microsoft we have today. I would expect that there was at least a mention, considering the reason that most modules in npm are still in ES5 is exactly because of the monopolistic practices that Microsoft followed back in the day which makes Internet Explorer still rel…

> considering the reason that most modules in npm are still in ES5 is exactly because of the monopolistic practices that Microsoft followed back in the day which makes Internet Explorer still relevant.

Could you tell me more about that?

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#258

Post by wutwutwutwut »

mundo wrote: post #188
franciscop wrote: post #26

I'm surprised there's not a single mention of "Microsoft" in this or the npm announcement [1], given the old-evil-history of Microsoft and the new-nice Microsoft we have today. I would expect that there was at least a mention, considering the reason that most modules in npm are still in ES5 is exactly because of the monopolistic practices that Microsoft followed back in the day which makes Internet Explorer still rel…

Yes, why is this not titled "Microsoft acquires npm"?

Would be super strange if titles always referred to the top-most parent company. Every time Google does something the title should be referring to Alphabet? Please no.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#259

Post by prepend »

hajile wrote: post #179
epicide wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a trustworthy Microsoft look like to you?

Chapter 7 Bankruptcy where they get acquired by a newly-reformed Sun Microsystems (where no stock is owned by Oracle or Oracle shareholders). EDIT: I'm mostly kidding, but you can't really expect true change of morals when the vast majority of the upper management is the same under the new CEO as under the old one.

I think Sun was worse than MS. Your scenario would terrify me.

Sun’s hardware was expensive although their software was nice. Their handling of Java put me off them and led to this current state with Oracle.

They had many positives, but I’d rather have old Microsoft than old Sun if I had to pick only one to eat everything. Definitely prefer new Microsoft.

Re: NPM Is Joining GitHub

#260

Post by sytse »

Vinnl wrote: post #167
sytse wrote: post #25

Thanks to Microsoft/GitHub for this acquisition. NPM is essential to the Javascript eco-system and it is hard to have a business model for just a registry. In the ruby eco-system the awesome Ruby Together https://rubytogether.org/ was started to run the registry. In this case one of the worlds most valuable companies will run it, which means it doesn't need a not-for-profit. Regarding "trace a change from a GitHub pu…

That must make you nervous over at GitLab, no? GitLab's integrated workflow is one of its main selling points (I love it), and GitHub now seems to be well underway to cross that moat.

It is exciting to see that having everything in a single application is being validated by GitHub. Last year it was very clear they are switching from a marketplace model to a single application by including Verify (CI), Package, and Secure.

We think Git(Lab|Hub) will become the two most popular solutions and we look forward to this competition https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/leadership/biggest-risks/#...

I think the companies that should be nervous are ones that have only one stage or ones that have multiple stages but as a suite of applications instead of a single application https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/product/single-application... There are a lot of these https://about.gitlab.com/devops-tools/

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