One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American • Hacker News Board

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#221

Post by erobbins » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

ptruesdell wrote: post #176

erobbins wrote: post #153

Honestly I'd like to see a 1 month quarantine, with the US government guaranteeing the wages of everyone in the workforce for that time. Something like 100% up to 50k/year, 75% of 50-100k, and cap it there. It would cost a few hundred billion dollars but it would keep the "I have to work or be homeless" people from being homeless and allow them to actually stay home for that time.

Just $10k for every full time employee in the US is over 1.3 trillion dollars, so your numbers are pretty far off.

1 month salary for every full time employee is not anywhere near that. Especially capped at 1/12 of 100k/year

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#222

Post by effingwewt » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

ada1981 wrote: post #179

That buys a decent amount of whiteclaw, instant lotto tickets and juul pods.

How is that any different from it going to folks better off who don't immediately need it, and thus stash it in savings, etc.?

The point is it will be going to those who need it. Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#223

Post by wonderwonder » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:28 PM UTC

pwf8 wrote: post #210

wonderwonder wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. So they go to work and spread the virus. Providing them and others with enough money to at least cover their most dire bills reduces that need to go to work sick. If money is not provided to these people, the odds that they are soon homeless if their work closes down is very real. ~40% of America cannot afford a…

What you don't get is Wall St and Corporate America will come up with 2000 different schemes to extract as much of that $1000 by tomorrow morning.

You're right, I don't get it. Its much better to have these people who are suffering under an economic collapse outside of their control go to work sick, and spread the virus before finally losing their jobs and homes and go without food instead of getting money and then using that money to buy necessities and in turn stimulate the economy. In addition the people who's children relied on school lunches should be glad they are not getting money to feed them so as to keep it out of the hands of big industry. Thank you for illuminating my ignorance I was blind to it before.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#224

Post by jhawk28 » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:28 PM UTC

neltnerb wrote: post #155

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

For context, the US has 330M people. So $1k per person is a $330B expense. The Fed, which has no legislative oversight on this kind of thing, lowered interest rates to 0% and is buying $700B of treasuries to stabilize the banks. So you know, only twice that much authorized to make things marginally better for banks and the stock market. So I think maybe pretend that it was actually $2k per person. Other than losing y…

It is $1k per adult which would be $253B. Families would get $2k...unless you are in Utah.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#225

Post by maratd » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #213

maratd wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. Absolutely and those people should receive assistance through the regular channels we have available. Unemployment, charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc. and frankly, good old fashioned neighborly assistance. Not by throwing money at everybody, most of whom do not need it. That's just redistribution of…

"Absolutely and those people should receive assistance through the regular channels we have available. Unemployment, charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc. and frankly, good old fashioned neighborly assistance." This probably works well in upper class neighborhoods, but a good portion of the US don't live in communities with much to spare. People unable to afford a $400 emergency or who rely on schools to ens…

Your point is absolutely valid, but there is no reason why the same doesn't apply to this new scheme as well. You would need to distribute the money and the same distribution problems apply. People are people.

Give everybody $1k? Who's everybody? If you're in this country illegally, do you get $1k? What about people who got stranded here due to border closures? How are you going to identify people? How will you stop fraud, double dipping, etc?

Maybe instead of creating a new bureaucracy in the middle of a crisis, use the existing systems that are already in place and just pump more cash into them?

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#226

Post by justin66 » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

Gunax wrote: post #198

justin66 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it, particularly in the context of emergency relief for individuals, which is where this conversation started. 1. The pandemic reveals major holes in the social safety net that people are pretty upset about. 2. One party wants the patch the holes, and they continue to feel that way. The other party regards the holes as grimly necessary to keep people properly motivated, or part of God's divine plan, or im…

One party wants to fix the economy and promote jobs and enterprise. The other wants to destroy the economy so we are all dependent on government handouts and keep voting for more handouts. See how I can easily spin it the other way? I hate to say it--and I hope this doesn't sound too flippant--but I think you're doing exactly what I described. If you started out thinking that your ideology is clearly correct and the…

It does sound flippant, but that's not the point. A situation like "everyone wants to use this disaster to achieve the policy goals they wanted anyway," while a slight exaggeration, might productively lead a person interested in the function of their government to evaluate the quality of those policy goals, rather than withdraw into cynicism. In an election year, it'd actually be somewhat appropriate.

> If you started out thinking that your ideology is clearly correct and the opposition has nefarious motives, then rather than this disaster leading anyone to question their beliefs, it will stand to reinforce them.

If you're the kind of person who gives a damn about "motives" instead of ideas and policies, well... it is understandable at times, but that's not something to aspire to.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#227

Post by Proziam » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

Can someone please answer this for me:

Why not simply not tax individuals? Suspending mortgage payments, rents, and taxes would have a much greater benefit as far as I can tell. This topic reeks of political opportunism.

It looks like everyone in favor of 'UBI' (including politicians and 'influencers') is clamoring for this despite not considering (or, in the case of the politicians, ignoring intentionally) any of the drawbacks.

1. The money isn't 'free' it's coming out of tax dollars.

2. Once a UBI concept exists, people begin to plan their lives around it. Any changes to the system that aren't increasing the amounts received then have a huge negative impact on a large population.

3. The average American household now carries significant debt, in the tens of thousands of dollars range. They won't be stimulating the economy if they are just paying back (part of) prior debts.

4. Do we seriously trust the US Government to not mess this up? California is the [0]world's fifth-largest economy and still spends more than it takes in, despite placing enormous tax burdens on its residents. The federal government hasn't been any better, historically. At what point does the economic house of cards come crashing down? Who gets crushed first if it does?

[0]https://www.businessinsider.com/california-economy-ranks-5th...

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#228

Post by seemslegit » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

ianleeclark wrote: post #215

seemslegit wrote: post #197

This won't help a recession one bit as it doesn't incentivize any economic activity. An average 1000$-worth of government-backed loan risk subsidy might be worth considering. With fed interest rates near-zero people with good credit should already be able to get pretty good short term loans and this will help those without a credit score or with a poor one to be able to meet their obligations.

> This won't help a recession one bit as it doesn't incentivize any economic activity Please explain to me how, in a country where 76% of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, putting more cash in their pocket doesn't stimulate economic activity? When someone loses hours at their job due to no customers coming through, how does making sure that person can still eat not, at bare minimum, ensure they can still eat…

A subsidized loan will also put cash in their pocket, will do so more efficiently because it should only be taken out by those who need it to the extent needed. A 1000$ for the people who don't need it is basically a luxury gift in hard times.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#229

Post by rhizome » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

Yes, it should be $10-15k, enough to get over the projected 150 day infection cycle.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#230

Post by rhizome » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #72

leggomylibro wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't live off of $1000/mo in most cities without making some real sacrifices, but a $1000 supplement would still be a huge help to people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and may not get paid for a few weeks. It'll buffer out what might otherwise turn into an inability to pay basic bills like food and medicine. After all, only 40% of Americans are able to cover an unexpected $1000 expense. That's the really soberin…

> only 40% of Americans are able to cover an unexpected $1000 expense. That's the really sobering number, in my view This is pretty common everywhere across the developed world. The majority of OECD nations have a lower median wealth figure than the US, including Sweden and Germany (their median wealth figures are particularly shockingly low, given the affluence those nations should have vs their national output and…

>This is pretty common everywhere across the developed world

How much does a trip to the ER in an ambulance cost the patient in those countries?