One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American • Hacker News Board

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#191

Post by oat_bravo_nap » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #94

xyzzyz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Direct, debt free issuance of a citizens dividend to every US citizen. Coupled with a wind-down of the debt bubble. There are three ways to make it possible: 1) issue government debt to pay for it 2) increase taxes to cover it 3) print money to cover it. Number 3) will cause significant inflation, so it will effectively be paid for by tax on cash savings. High inflation is really bad, it’s a terrible idea. 1) has t…

You act like these are wild approaches. But during this this current term we've already done #1 via the 1Trillion tax cuts to mostly the wealthy. Those (many of us on here) who won't use it for goods and services, but instead to further prop up your asset bubble of choice. Ie not improve the economy much, but make the appearance of improvement via higher asset pricess. Then we've done #3 via re-introducing QE via the…

> But during this this current term we've already done #1 via the 1Trillion tax cuts to mostly the wealthy.

Tax revenue has not decreased. The deficit is a spending problem not a revenue problem.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#192

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #182

wonderwonder wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. So they go to work and spread the virus. Providing them and others with enough money to at least cover their most dire bills reduces that need to go to work sick. If money is not provided to these people, the odds that they are soon homeless if their work closes down is very real. ~40% of America cannot afford a…

> People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. Absolutely and those people should receive assistance through the regular channels we have available. Unemployment, charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc. and frankly, good old fashioned neighborly assistance. Not by throwing money at everybody, most of whom do not need it. That's just redistribution of…

> charities ... churches, synagogues, etc., and frankly good old fashioned neighborly assistance

All of those things have displayed discrimination against groups they don't like in the past, or have an overt or covert missionary agenda. Charities have also come under fire for spending much of their funds raised on high executive salaries and not so much on actual aid to the needy. It is no surprise that much of the developed world no longer considers them a reasonable social safety net. (Indeed, in the Nordic countries the churches have largely given up their historical niche as a distributor of charity, since they feel the state can do a better job of taking care of the needy than they can.)

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#193

Post by jandrese » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

abnercoimbre wrote: post #99

Miner49er wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is $2500 for your family as a whole, not $1k, sounds like it would get you through at least a month. $1000 per adult and $500 per kid.

It's unclear to me why most arguments leave this data point out -- it drastically changes the entire equation!

The answer to your question is obvious: You have to read the article to get that information, it's not in the headline.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#194

Post by izzydata » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:42 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #182

wonderwonder wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. So they go to work and spread the virus. Providing them and others with enough money to at least cover their most dire bills reduces that need to go to work sick. If money is not provided to these people, the odds that they are soon homeless if their work closes down is very real. ~40% of America cannot afford a…

> People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. Absolutely and those people should receive assistance through the regular channels we have available. Unemployment, charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc. and frankly, good old fashioned neighborly assistance. Not by throwing money at everybody, most of whom do not need it. That's just redistribution of…

You could cut out the vast majority of giving people $1000 they don't need by only giving it to people that ask for it. If you wanted to go further you could check the persons last tax return. If they exceed some threshold then you could deny them.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#195

Post by look_lookatme » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

maximente wrote: post #57

i just don't see how UBI survives a highly polarized, segregated society pumped out by the US media. imagine the headlines by Fox News as soon as they find 4 people living together playing video games all day. or smoking pot. or etc. in a weird way it dangerously exposes people as, according to "the economy", particularly not valuable. the framing will go: these people are literally doing nothing and we're supporting…

People's minds will change once they get that check.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#196

Post by eudoxus » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

nybble41 wrote: post #144

ryukafalz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s also just straight up luck. I was fortunate enough to get a decent job that paid well largely because I knew the right people; I have friends with similar levels of education who aren’t so well off. They’re not any less thoughtful with their money than I am (in fact probably more so), it’s just a matter of circumstance.

"Knowing the right people" isn't exactly pure luck either. People do have a certain amount of influence over the social connections they (or their family) choose to cultivate.

It might not be "luck" but it certainly is privilege, I would call it "Economic/Wealth privilege". Which isn't to say it means purely rich vs poor, but it's much easier to be in an environment that fosters "knowing the right people" if you have economic privilege. Although not impossible, certainly unequal.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#197

Post by seemslegit » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

This won't help a recession one bit as it doesn't incentivize any economic activity.

An average 1000$-worth of government-backed loan risk subsidy might be worth considering.

With fed interest rates near-zero people with good credit should already be able to get pretty good short term loans and this will help those without a credit score or with a poor one to be able to meet their obligations.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#198

Post by Gunax » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #184

Gunax wrote: post #15

I too think this is silly. Everyone wants to use this disaster to achieve the policy goals they wanted anyway. Republicans want to use it as an excuse for tax cuts. Democrats want to expand public healthcare and benefits. Everyone is trying to attach riders for domestic violence victims or pork spending or whatever pet issue they have. And now the Ubi folks want this. Nothing changes. Same BS.

I don't get it, particularly in the context of emergency relief for individuals, which is where this conversation started. 1. The pandemic reveals major holes in the social safety net that people are pretty upset about. 2. One party wants the patch the holes, and they continue to feel that way. The other party regards the holes as grimly necessary to keep people properly motivated, or part of God's divine plan, or im…

One party wants to fix the economy and promote jobs and enterprise. The other wants to destroy the economy so we are all dependent on government handouts and keep voting for more handouts.

See how I can easily spin it the other way?

I hate to say it--and I hope this doesn't sound too flippant--but I think you're doing exactly what I described.

If you started out thinking that your ideology is clearly correct and the opposition has nefarious motives, then rather than this disaster leading anyone to question their beliefs, it will stand to reinforce them.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#199

Post by TheFiend7 » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #116

TheFiend7 wrote: post #76

The whole idea of UBI is honestly pretty idiotic. Any form of UBI should 1000% be in the form of benefits, goods, housing, or other physical goods. I'd much rather have tax cuts to reduce money lost through the middle man, as the middle man always wants a cut. Meaning you'd lose far more money to the process than if you were to just reduce taxes.

> Any form of UBI should 1000% be in the form of benefits, goods, housing, or other physical goods. We've tried this and it's a dumpster fire. The government builds low income housing which is 100% people in poverty and it turns into a slum. The government subsidizes home loans and student loans and it raises the cost of housing and education. The government subsidizes food and then restaurant workers who already hav…

Fair but you just completely ignored the second half of my comment. Instead of handing out money, don't take it in the first place?

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#200

Post by maratd » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #192

maratd wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People working many hourly jobs net less than $1,000 per month and cannot afford to take unpaid time off. Absolutely and those people should receive assistance through the regular channels we have available. Unemployment, charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc. and frankly, good old fashioned neighborly assistance. Not by throwing money at everybody, most of whom do not need it. That's just redistribution of…

> charities ... churches, synagogues, etc., and frankly good old fashioned neighborly assistance All of those things have displayed discrimination against groups they don't like in the past, or have an overt or covert missionary agenda. Charities have also come under fire for spending much of their funds raised on high executive salaries and not so much on actual aid to the needy. It is no surprise that much of the d…

>> charities, welfare, churches, synagogues, etc.

> All of those things have displayed discrimination against groups they don't like in the past, or have an overt or covert missionary agenda.

The welfare office discriminates against groups they don't like? It has an overt missionary agenda? This is news to me.