As an Italian, I raise my eyebrows every time China is mentioned as an example for the successful containment of this virus. It could do that because it could afford to take the economical hit and because it is an authoritarian state, which means you can get almost everyone to obey, in one way or another. Also, the Chinese Party is what caused this mess to begin with, by allowing this virus to spread all around the w…
> As an Italian, I raise my eyebrows every time China is mentioned as an example for the successful containment of this virus. It could do that because it could afford to take the economical hit and because it is an authoritarian state, You know what is MUCH more effective than an authoritarian response? An _earlier response_. An earlier response, even if it weaker, is much more potent than a stronger later response.…
Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
221–230 of 740 posts
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't need expertise beyond elementary school math to understand cases doubling every 2 to 3 days is very, very bad. Look at the charts for any of the countries. They all follow the same pattern. The US is going to look like France and Italy in a week, 10 days at the most. This is a certainty.
> This is a certainty. Are you an epidemiologist?
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think there's any realistic situation that would justify caving to the isolationism and xenophobia that's been pushed by the Trump administration for the last four years.
Are you making a parallel between isolate yourself to not catch and spread a disease with "isolationism and xenophobia"? I sure hope you (and people in general) can separate the 2 concepts or we're really doomed.
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#224As a physicist, it still feels odd to me they are talking about statistics with such confidence here. It seems only SK has earned that right and has tested enough people to get reliable statistics. If you only measure the sick in the hospital...
The pattern is fairly consistent across countries [0]: [0] https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
A bit facetious I know but I don't feel that bat soup or pangolin pie would ever be an element of Italian cuisine
A bat infecting a pig could easily happen in Italy. Or anywhere else for that matter.
In his interview with Joe Rogan, Michael Osterholm called it "the perfect experiment that no university would let you do":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw
Their discussion of wet markets starts at around 1:01:00.
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#226You may think "it's not here yet". It is.
You may think "the numbers are low". They aren't. We are failing miserably in our testing, our numbers are easily off by a factor of 10 (for infections).
You might not want to be "weird" and not want to practice social distancing. You need to.
You need to act when it feels too early and honestly, in the US, that was a week+ ago so at least act now.
I don't say these things to whip people up in a panic, I say them because we are about to get hit hard here in the US. If you know a nurse maybe send them a text and ask how they feel. I can tell you the nurses I know are freaking out because they know we are not prepared. A have a friend who works at a big hospital. They have 2 cases (at least as of a day ago) and they almost buckled under it. They don't have many masks, they don't have training, and the hospital itself has no plans in place. When asked "How many masks do we have?" the answer (on Thursday of this week) was "I don't know" from the head of infections diseases. Let that sink in. March 12th.
I can understand not knowing the count off the top of your head in November 2019, I can understand it in December 2019, I can still wrap my head around not knowing it in January 2020 but damn it... It's March, you are in a meeting to discuss COVID-19 and you don't know how many masks you have on hand?
The world has been warning us for months now and they had no plans for how to handle visitors. The nurses have not done n95 mask fit tests. They are not getting clear direction on how handle mask reuse. We are not prepared for this. If this hospital (which I would trust for any major procedure) is feeling the strain with 2 patients what happens when there are 4? 8? 16? 32?
[0] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRgTUN1zz_oeQpnJxpeaE...
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#227As an Italian, I raise my eyebrows every time China is mentioned as an example for the successful containment of this virus. It could do that because it could afford to take the economical hit and because it is an authoritarian state, which means you can get almost everyone to obey, in one way or another. Also, the Chinese Party is what caused this mess to begin with, by allowing this virus to spread all around the w…
> As an Italian, I raise my eyebrows every time China is mentioned as an example for the successful containment of this virus. China dropped the ball for a full 10 days back when the disease was nicely contained to a small part of Wuhan, and then largely to Wuhan itself and Hubei - they didn't let the population know about the danger, so for quite some time no one was thinking about protecting themselves by wearing m…
From the number of people and the wide range of field and institutions signing this letter, I suspect a very strong CCP secret united action behind it to paint a good picture for CCP reputation. The most probably org that manipulated this letter is the so called "Chinese Students and Scholar Organization" that exists in every country and directed by CCP embassy. Only such an org can enlist by its members's connections so many different field people to sign this letter.
On the other hand, I think most of the signers are sincere in their actions and belief and did not realize they are being manipulated by CCP.
Cut away the part that praise CCP, the other part of the letter is mostly correct I think, countries should take actions before it is too late.
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are more cases, they are on average much more mild, the real mortality rate is much lower, it is actually not doubling every two days (it is the tests that are doubling every few days). Lots of possible and very consequential conclusions.
Deaths follow a predictable exponent too.
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#229https://medium.com/@jb_89278/the-11-day-plan-to-contain-covi...
The guy is tech enterpreneur and VC investor who has been advising our (Czech) PM.
Re: Open letter from Italy to the international scientific community
#230As a physicist, it still feels odd to me they are talking about statistics with such confidence here. It seems only SK has earned that right and has tested enough people to get reliable statistics. If you only measure the sick in the hospital...
But if someone throws on just enough additional Uranium for the pile to go supercritical, you would run for your life because none of the following will matter[1] all that much to the final outcome:
1) How much neutron radiation there was to start with.
2) The specific exponential growth coefficient.
3) How much total Uranium there is, as long as it's a nontrivial amount
4) Whether your Geiger counter is off by some constant factor or not.
None of those matter. It's going boom. It might go boom a bit sooner or a bit later, but it is going to go boom. That's just how exponential growth works. There's no maybe. There's no "let us wait and see". There's no "we'll hope for the best". No: It. Will. Go. Boom.
All of the factors that are irrelevant are just shifting a figurative vertical wall on your graph paper a bit to the left, or a bit to the right. It's adding or subtracting "a couple of doubling times". If the doubling time is short, then you're not really achieving anything by fiddling with constant factors.
With the Coronavirus just about every country has a doubling time of 4-5 days.
I live in Australia, where we're about a "month behind" everyone else. So of course, the dumbass government is saying things like "the heat here will slow it down". But it hasn't, our doubling time is 4.75 days at the moment. They're saying that it's "premature to lock down the country". No it isn't, it's already weeks too late and getting literally exponentially worse daily! They're saying that the hospitals are being prepared, but no amount of extra beds or ventilators will help. If they double the number, it just delays the catastrophe by 4.75 days. Not even a whole week! Quadrupling beds and ventilators buys just under 10 days before people are being turned away to go home and die.
So, again. I ask you: If you were the nuclear physicist in charge of a nuclear pile and someone told you it's gone critical and the radiation is rising exponentially, is your first reaction to: just "stand around and wait and see what happens", or to: take drastic action right this second? Do you SCRAM, or do you call the communist party leadership for permission? Are you the hero of the Chernobyl story, or the villain?
[1] Ignoring thermal effects slowing down the reaction. This actually has an analogy with disease spread, where there are fewer susceptible people remaining because everyone is already sick or dead. If we reach this point, we'll be seeing millions infected and hundreds of thousands dead.