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Pandemic Ventilator Project

panvent.blogspot.com

61–70 of 111 posts

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#61
post #15
post #3

Any thoughts about using a regular sleep apnea CPAP device for this type of situation, where one has access to the pressure settings?

I heard an Italian doctor on the news yesterday saying they were using CPAP machines on (non-ICU?) CV patients in wards.

I suspect this is because they're out of ventilators and CPAP machines are the only option they have left.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#62
As an anesthesiologist and hacker, I love the enthusiasm here. I’m less concerned about the hospital use-case. It would be helpful to crowdsource solutions to address the need for ventilators after patients leave the ICU. Based on current practice patterns, some patients will undergo tracheostomy tube placement, and then need to be discharged to respiratory rehab facilities. We will need to increase capacity in this setting, and I’m not seeing or hearing anyone address this area. If we don’t solve this problem, we will find ourselves with a backlog of patients who could be discharged from the ICU, but with nowhere to go.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#63
post #27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that with the kind of ventilation required you need to sedate the patient with gasses and you need to recycle those gasses and unused oxygen. With the length of time patients have to be on this you don't want to lose those gasses and also pump it out into the atmosphere. The Manley design could be a good starting point I suppose, you just have to replace the weight system with controllers and add a carbo…

Physician here; this isn't true for the ventilation of COVID patients, or ICU patients in general. There's a difference between simple ventilator [1], and an anesthesia machine [2] that adds gas mixing, scavenging, etc. ICU patients are anesthetized using IV sedation (a common regimen in the US is fentanyl/propofol), not inhalational anesthetics. Most vents only have simple inline filters to reduce contamination. [1]…

I have an MTV (manually triggered ventilator) in my O2 kit for a scuba diving emergencies. Of course my O2 supply is only good for about 15 minutes. Would this be of any assistance while waiting for an ENT to arrive?

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#64
post #39
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so what is the best way, in your opinion, for a still healthy hacker/maker geek to contribute something (anything?) to helping our local ICUs from being overwhelmed with patients? Edited to add: Spoken as the Dad of a 28 week premie who spent 8 weeks on a ventilator in a NICU.

There is a manufacturer of emergency ventilators. Why they aren't working triple shifts to make millions is beyond me.

Well we'd need to get the government to pay them to ramp up production, otherwise they might go bankrupt producing more ventilators than end up being needed. Paying for "insurance" in the form of extra ventilators should probably be done by the government, not by a corporation.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#65
post #27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that with the kind of ventilation required you need to sedate the patient with gasses and you need to recycle those gasses and unused oxygen. With the length of time patients have to be on this you don't want to lose those gasses and also pump it out into the atmosphere. The Manley design could be a good starting point I suppose, you just have to replace the weight system with controllers and add a carbo…

Physician here; this isn't true for the ventilation of COVID patients, or ICU patients in general. There's a difference between simple ventilator [1], and an anesthesia machine [2] that adds gas mixing, scavenging, etc. ICU patients are anesthetized using IV sedation (a common regimen in the US is fentanyl/propofol), not inhalational anesthetics. Most vents only have simple inline filters to reduce contamination. [1]…

Do you think a simple design like the Manley would pass muster today?

Seriously thinking about putting together a group of people to start producing these locally. Around campus we have a significant capacity in manufacturing precision mechanical devices.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got an idea for a way to reduce R0 with some voluntary people tracking. I could do with some other developers to plan it. If anyone's interested, please drop me an email: rls at hwyl.org

Care to explain the downvote? It's a bit depressing trying to do something positive in the current climate.

I didn't downvote, but I can see why others did.

If you have an idea to share, share it. Don't make people jump through the hoop of sending email.

If you are concerned about others stealing your idea, then your comment is essentially spam, because you're using HN as a recruiting tool to build your team. Only YC companies can do that here.

Your motivation might be something other than either of these possibilities. It's easier to downvote and stop thinking about it than to figure out your true intentions.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#67

As an anesthesiologist and hacker, I love the enthusiasm here. I’m less concerned about the hospital use-case. It would be helpful to crowdsource solutions to address the need for ventilators after patients leave the ICU. Based on current practice patterns, some patients will undergo tracheostomy tube placement, and then need to be discharged to respiratory rehab facilities. We will need to increase capacity in this…

Anecdotally:

My mother is a retired RN with an "inactive" license in Washington state. She does elder care as a side gig for individual clients.

She recently had to turn someone down because the patient was intubated; it's not legal for her to care for such a patient. If anything went wrong she could be both at risk of a lawsuit and in trouble with the state for practicing medicine without a license.

(She's also in her seventies herself, putting her in the high-risk category, but that's a different issue.)

I'm at a loss as to how our legal and licensing institutions can be adapted to allow for a quick increase in the number of personnel who can care for intubated patients.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#68
post #41

Great idea. Simultaneous to these types of home-brew projects...we also need someone (President? eCelebs? etc) to promote and organize fund raising efforts to simply buy and distribute cheap but effective ventilators. Imagine a WWII style "war bonds" effort, but instead to build and distribute say 5M ventilators over the next 6 weeks. In addition to this, we must re-purpose closed schools (gyms, cafeterias, etc) into…

"we also need someone (President? eCelebs? etc) to promote and organize fund raising" Fund raising won't help if too many people get infected. What you need right now is for those in charge to stop playing Rambo and pretend they have it in control (they don't) then grow up, tell people to stop behaving like there is nothing going on. Schools, stadiums, all non vital businesses should close and people should stay home…

Plan for the big peak, hope for the small one. There is no indication that leadership in the US is going to suddenly start behaving sensibly.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got an idea for a way to reduce R0 with some voluntary people tracking. I could do with some other developers to plan it. If anyone's interested, please drop me an email: rls at hwyl.org

Care to explain the downvote? It's a bit depressing trying to do something positive in the current climate.

Not a downvoter but my guess is posting "I've got at idea" with zero details and a request for people to contact you is not the type of collaboration people here want to encourage. Others with ideas are simply posting them here and receiving public feedback on them.

Re: Pandemic Ventilator Project

#70
post #67

As an anesthesiologist and hacker, I love the enthusiasm here. I’m less concerned about the hospital use-case. It would be helpful to crowdsource solutions to address the need for ventilators after patients leave the ICU. Based on current practice patterns, some patients will undergo tracheostomy tube placement, and then need to be discharged to respiratory rehab facilities. We will need to increase capacity in this…

Anecdotally: My mother is a retired RN with an "inactive" license in Washington state. She does elder care as a side gig for individual clients. She recently had to turn someone down because the patient was intubated; it's not legal for her to care for such a patient. If anything went wrong she could be both at risk of a lawsuit and in trouble with the state for practicing medicine without a license. (She's also in h…

You raise a related issue, which is critical to address as well. That is, we need people to help manage patients before, during, and after their hospital stay. I’m less concerned about the licensing issues because public health emergency declarations make it possible for state officials to clear the way for someone like your mom.

Where you, and fellow hackers can help, is by offering tech solutions that solve the issue of coordinating/figuring out where your mom’s skills could be most helpful. We will also need to collect information, such as when your mom is available to help. Could be a good time to revisit the concept of an Uber-like platform for healthcare delivery, assuming that it can be up an running in a few days. Hack-a-thon, anyone?

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