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Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

cwa-union.org

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Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#121

Post by manfredo »

Apocryphon wrote: post #118
manfredo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game developers' experiencing the misery of crunch time and layoffs is something I've heard about firsthand since the early 2000s at the latest. Reading accounts from earlier games' development cycles suggests that this has been common for even longer than that. Game development has always had cyclical labor demands and tight deadlines. I think you need to qualify the claim that these experiences are worsening. In fa…

That's fair, perhaps conditions haven't been substantially worse than in previous console generations. But it sounds like there's something driving the push towards unionizing/organizing, whatever it is. And it sounds like the general public is more aware it being a brutal industry.

Just because you're seeing more news stories about unionization or organizing, doesn't actually mean that there's more interest in unionizing and organizing. It just means that people producing news are writing more stories covering unionization and organizing.

Take this story for example. Linkedin lists Glitch's size as 11-50. The highest employee count I've found claims 120. This is small fish in a very large pond. This press release name drops Google, but these companies are three orders of magnitude apart in terms of size.

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#122

Post by Apocryphon »

manfredo wrote: post #121
Apocryphon wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, perhaps conditions haven't been substantially worse than in previous console generations. But it sounds like there's something driving the push towards unionizing/organizing, whatever it is. And it sounds like the general public is more aware it being a brutal industry.

Just because you're seeing more news stories about unionization or organizing, doesn't actually mean that there's more interest in unionizing and organizing. It just means that people producing news are writing more stories covering unionization and organizing. Take this story for example. Linkedin lists Glitch's size as 11-50. The highest employee count I've found claims 120. This is small fish in a very large pond.…

Prior to this, and at Kickstarter, there were no high-profile tech unions. Now there is at least two. Now you might not consider that substantially more, but that's still definitely more.

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#123

Post by ColonelSanders »

For a union, it's concerning when some things are more tailored to the whims, edge cases, personal niches of the most vocal, rather than shielding the common denominator of the cooperative from management's business decisions.

I'd like to explain what I like, and what I'm concerned about:

> Employees at major American tech and game companies have grown increasingly active and outspoken about workplace issues,

Very union related, that's what unions are for.

> including sexual assault and harassment,

Already unlawful. They are addressable to the NLRB and civil legal system.

> ageism,

That's vague, but there are protections against this

> unequal pay,

Not sure what this means, pay between workers of the same level of seniority performing the same responsibilities? Overtime? A lot of things factor into equal pay. A junior employee isn't going to make as much as a 20 year employee.

> “crunch time” (i.e. long-term overtime and overworking),

Looks right. These are covered in union contracts

> poor treatment of contract workers,

If they have union membership? Wouldn't it be about defining a standard of what a salaried employee is?

> inadequate racial and gender diversity,

What does that mean? Inadequate to whom? What makes those characteristics worthy but other characteristics not?

I find it very hurtful and insensitive to people who struggle, suffer, overcome odds, from difficult upbringings, but not member of some class or facet. Why reduce the struggle, character, and worth of someone down to those things? Where does this come from?

What does this say to your colleagues who don't have these traits? Do they have life easy? Have you walked a mile in their shoes?

> and lack of transparency and inclusion in decision-making around controversial contracts with the U.S. Department of Defense and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

That is not the kind of decision I think employees should be deciding. Though if a larger organization wanted to allow someone to move somewhere else in the org, that seems fair

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#124

Post by Apocryphon »

ColonelSanders wrote: post #123

For a union, it's concerning when some things are more tailored to the whims, edge cases, personal niches of the most vocal, rather than shielding the common denominator of the cooperative from management's business decisions. I'd like to explain what I like, and what I'm concerned about: > Employees at major American tech and game companies have grown increasingly active and outspoken about workplace issues, Very un…

> Already unlawful. They are addressable to the NLRB and civil legal system.

> That's vague, but there are protections against this

> Wouldn't it be about defining a standard of what a salaried employee is?

Unions can be an additional safety net/layer of protection/tool against these discriminations and abuses. In a time when HR departments are often derided as existing to protect the company instead of workers, and it often takes either media exposure or self-publishing (as with Susan Fowler) for discrimination against protected classes to be acknowledged, a union could be a place for the discriminated to turn to where HR reps fail. At least then you don't have to hire your own lawyer.

> unequal pay,

This might be a gender gap criticism meaning unequal pay between workers with the same title but of different genders.

> That is not the kind of decision I think employees should be deciding.

Why? The stigma of culture war and political battles aside, why shouldn't employees take part in making business decisions in general?

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#125

Post by manfredo »

Apocryphon wrote: post #122
manfredo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you're seeing more news stories about unionization or organizing, doesn't actually mean that there's more interest in unionizing and organizing. It just means that people producing news are writing more stories covering unionization and organizing. Take this story for example. Linkedin lists Glitch's size as 11-50. The highest employee count I've found claims 120. This is small fish in a very large pond.…

Prior to this, and at Kickstarter, there were no high-profile tech unions. Now there is at least two. Now you might not consider that substantially more, but that's still definitely more.

There still aren't any high profile tech unions. Glitch is 120 people with the highest estimates. Kickstarter is 258 as of March 2020 [1]. These are small companies - medium at best. By comparison there are over a million software developers in the US [2]. And that's just one of many "tech" jobs ("Computer Systems Analyst" has another 600k, "Computer Programmer has 250k). Even if we assume that every employee at these companies work in tech roles, these companies represent less than 0.02% of the tech workforce.

1. https://craft.co/kickstarter

2. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#126

Post by frenchyatwork »

gatsby wrote: post #85
throwaway10018 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway account because duh. Note that I am not a current Glitch employee, but am well-connected to Glitch née Fog Creek. Management was basically incredibly incompetent, for a long time, and were so unfair to employees at the company that they felt this was the only option. There is a Tweet stream a couple months ago from someone who left the company who highlighted the amazing degree to which they were unfairly r…

Thanks for the context. "Management was basically incredibly incompetent, for a long time, and were so unfair to employees at the company that they felt this was the only option" Why not just quit and get a new role? I don't really understand how being unionized under terrible management is desirable.

Perhaps because the employees actually care about the company they work for and want to continue working there, but also want to feel like they're producing value. A company is more than its management.

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#127

Post by Apocryphon »

manfredo wrote: post #125
Apocryphon wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to this, and at Kickstarter, there were no high-profile tech unions. Now there is at least two. Now you might not consider that substantially more, but that's still definitely more.

There still aren't any high profile tech unions. Glitch is 120 people with the highest estimates. Kickstarter is 258 as of March 2020 [1]. These are small companies - medium at best. By comparison there are over a million software developers in the US [2]. And that's just one of many "tech" jobs ("Computer Systems Analyst" has another 600k, "Computer Programmer has 250k). Even if we assume that every employee at thes…

Right, but the fact that there's any movement in the industry at all, stories generating discussions such as this one, groups like the Tech Workers Coalition gaining attention, etc., can mean there's some trend shifting. Unless you think the news is selectively focusing on stories to cover and this is all media manufactured.

And when change occurs, whether a social trend, or new product type, or whatever- the pioneers tend to be smaller examples rather than high-profile, no?

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#128

Post by BrainInAJar »

pkaler wrote: post #83
m0zg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game studios especially need this. I'm a conservative in most other labor-related things (liberal on social issues), but holy shit the devs are abused by the game studios.

Former game developer here. Game studios don't need unions, they need better management. Basically, an 18-year-old QA tester gets promoted to lead QA then associate producer then assistant producer and then producer. The producer manages by industry lore. And industry lore is terrible. Unionization is not going to fix the management training problem.

Unionization literally is there to fix management problems. By giving workers a say as to what management is allowed to do

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#129

Post by BrainInAJar »

manfredo wrote: post #99
einpoklum wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Game studios don't need unions, they need better management. If workers unionize [1], they can force bad management out, or curtail its badness, or in extreme cases - replace management with collective ownership. [1] - in an independent, non-corrupt union.

Or game developers can just hire non-union employees. The reality is that game development studios can get away with poor work life balance because there's people who are passionate about making games and are willing to accept poor working conditions to get a chance at their dream job. This Stage Actor's Guild exists, but aspiring actors still have to work second jobs to put a roof over their heads. When a job is a l…

> Or game developers can just hire non-union employees.

And then immediately be sued by the union & former employees for retaliation under the labor acts. Businesses already tried that sort of shenanigans

Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA

#130

Post by anthm1988 »

m0zg wrote: post #65
Apocryphon wrote: post #4

My highlights: > 90% of the workers indicated their support for joining CWA and authorized CWA to be their bargaining representative > about half of whom work in the New York City headquarters and half of whom work remotely throughout the country > Employees at major American tech and game companies have grown increasingly active and outspoken about workplace issues, including sexual assault and harassment, ageism, u…

Game studios especially need this. I'm a conservative in most other labor-related things (liberal on social issues), but holy shit the devs are abused by the game studios.

> liberal on social issues

You aren't liberal on social issues if you're a fiscal conservative. That's not how the world works.

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