Six months from now we will likely be wishing we had union jobs.
Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
91–100 of 175 posts
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell if there's a trace of sarcasm in the comment, so for the avoidance of doubt, I'll link to a pretty good lay read on issues in the game industry. https://time.com/5603329/e3-video-game-creators-union/
As a side note on the gaming industry: That industry seems notoriously bad so I wonder why people keep joining it. It also seems competitive to get in. So, to me, it seems like people know what they're getting themselves into before joining.
Making games is a lot of people's passion. This inflates the supply of labor for game development, which reduces cost (as well as lowering expectations for stability, work life balance, etc.) It's hard to negotiate for good work life balance and wages, when people are enamored with game development and willing to tolerate crunch time and cyclical labor demand.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#93Here is a question: Why don't we have more smaller unions in America, but instead these GIANT mega unions? I get collective bargaining is better with more numbers, but it feels like there is no way to have a "new" union exist?
Because the union’s best interest is the union itself. The bigger they are, the more profit they make.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Game studios especially need this. I'm a conservative in most other labor-related things (liberal on social issues), but holy shit the devs are abused by the game studios.
Former game developer here. Game studios don't need unions, they need better management. Basically, an 18-year-old QA tester gets promoted to lead QA then associate producer then assistant producer and then producer. The producer manages by industry lore. And industry lore is terrible. Unionization is not going to fix the management training problem.
> Game studios don't need unions, they need better management.
If workers unionize [1], they can force bad management out, or curtail its badness, or in extreme cases - replace management with collective ownership.
[1] - in an independent, non-corrupt union.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is this one of the angles that unions use to sell themselves to companies? Unions don't sell themselves to companies in the first place.
Why not? I would presume that would help with regard to union busting, scabs, outsourcing, etc.
> Why not?
The same reason your criminal defense attorney doesn't sell themselves to the public prosecutor's office.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Completely disagree. They aren't miners working in horrible conditions where that's the only job in town. Game developers are highly talented, skilled individuals. There is a high demand for such people outside the game industry they choose to stay there. I'm a developer in the finance industry. Worked in a few other sectors too. If games industry is harsh, jump ship. Abused? Get real, the working populations outside…
>If games industry is harsh, jump ship. If the industry you work in sucks, jump ship? That's not exactly great advice when you've spent decades honing your craft in a certain industry. Even if someone did genuinely want to switch, game development skills aren't necessarily easily transferable to other kinds of development, even if it helps. That advice makes sense if a company you works for sucks, but if an entire in…
> Even if someone did genuinely want to switch, game development skills aren't necessarily easily transferable to other kinds of development, even if it helps.
This needs a lot of qualification. Even someone doing scripting probably has picked up coding fluency at least. Programming game engines and networking code is definitely tackling complex problems and could at least get a mid-level dev role. I think 3d asset creation is probably the most game-specific role, and even that is something that is used by special effects companies and design firms.
> That advice makes sense if a company you works for sucks, but if an entire industry is broken, you can't just tell people to suck it up and find a new industry.
You absolutely can tell people to suck it up and find a new industry. This mentality is why the game industry can get away with bad work life balance and low job security. Because people keep working there. If the game industry was starved for talent, then they'd have to offer better work experiences.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Completely disagree. They aren't miners working in horrible conditions where that's the only job in town. Game developers are highly talented, skilled individuals. There is a high demand for such people outside the game industry they choose to stay there. I'm a developer in the finance industry. Worked in a few other sectors too. If games industry is harsh, jump ship. Abused? Get real, the working populations outside…
>If games industry is harsh, jump ship. If the industry you work in sucks, jump ship? That's not exactly great advice when you've spent decades honing your craft in a certain industry. Even if someone did genuinely want to switch, game development skills aren't necessarily easily transferable to other kinds of development, even if it helps. That advice makes sense if a company you works for sucks, but if an entire in…
While I mostly agree with your comment, I do want to mention for anyone who finds it useful: there's quite a bit of modeling and simulation work in the scientific computing and research industry, including the US government and contractors that lends itself well to certain game development skillsets.
There's typically more focus on analytics and the science skills over artistic skills (sorry graphic artists, environmental artists, etc.) obviously, but backend developers in gaming often have a lot of useful overlapping skills and knowledge in terms of systems design, design patterns, sets of problems, etc.
Pay is good, work/life balance is great, intellectually stimulating, it's challenging yet enjoyable (though arguably not as fun as game development). In many cases, industry borrows or leverages work from the gaming industry quite a bit.
A step further and the defense industry/military industrial complex would also love to have more game developers--though tech has a pretty anti-government pro-business vibe overall (not surprisingly).
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unions don't require graded pay scales. You don't have to be a miner to be systemically taken advantage of. If one employer offers an unfair employment contract, you can try another company. If every employer offers an unfair employment contract, you don't have the option of another company. I can name a few clauses that favor only the company that are present at every software employment contract in almost every sta…
Could these unemployed employees start their own cooperatives that do not take advantage of employees? I want to focus on making this possible. I am, personally, concerned that trying to create some two sided balance of power will not end up representing me as both sides will have their own interest.
They need to get capital from somewhere, which has a habit of dicating terms.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Former game developer here. Game studios don't need unions, they need better management. Basically, an 18-year-old QA tester gets promoted to lead QA then associate producer then assistant producer and then producer. The producer manages by industry lore. And industry lore is terrible. Unionization is not going to fix the management training problem.
> Game studios don't need unions, they need better management. If workers unionize [1], they can force bad management out, or curtail its badness, or in extreme cases - replace management with collective ownership. [1] - in an independent, non-corrupt union.
Or game developers can just hire non-union employees. The reality is that game development studios can get away with poor work life balance because there's people who are passionate about making games and are willing to accept poor working conditions to get a chance at their dream job. This Stage Actor's Guild exists, but aspiring actors still have to work second jobs to put a roof over their heads. When a job is a lot of people's dream job, conditions are going to be poor because the supply of potential labor is very large as compared to the demand.
Also, I have no idea where you get the idea that unions can somehow force collective ownership. The company belongs to the shareholders, unions don't magically get to take other people's property.
Re: Glitch employees vote to form union, joining CWA
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
A myth Americans believe is that you only need to form unions when there is an existing problem. That's like wanting medical coverage only after you get sick. You will not have the resources and voice if you wait until a crisis to organize. The employers relationship with unions is only antagonistic because of this waiting until crisis. on a secondary note, there is nothing wrong with living in a democracy and wantin…
I keep an open mind about unions. I hear they work well in many places (usually in Europe, for whatever reason), but many of us from blue collar American backgrounds only have experience with them protecting laggards and creating ridiculously inefficient working restrictions[^1][^2] which (presumably?) drive jobs overseas. I guess my questions for union proponents are: "Why do unions seem to work so poorly in the Uni…
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, what you’re posting is accurate. I had a former employee who worked as a software developer at a company that had union electricians. One day he got a new monitor, but it had to sit idle on his desk until an electrician could come and plug it into the wall.
He had to occasionally adjust controls that were slotted (potentiometers). He had a little screwdriver that he kept in his pocket to make that easier. The electricians filed a grievance with the union because he was carrying electrician’s tools.
I think there is some good in unions. I think there is also some bad.