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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#221

Post by amelius »

kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

> Not necessarily "hot" swappable

"Hot swappable" usually means you can swap it while the machine is turned on. At least, that's how people use the term when talking about harddrives.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#223

Post by jeremyjh »

pessimizer wrote: post #189
mathnovice wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. While the majority can create the rules the people that matter aren't the majority but creators and skilled professionals. When someone creates something they have absolute power over it until they reveal it to the world. They can even choose to destroy what they create rather than reveal it. When the majority (consumers) decide they want everything for free and that they want absolute power over the c…

> When someone creates something they have absolute power over it until they reveal it to the world. The vast majority of these "creators and skilled professionals" are doing work for hire for the same people who own everything else, and have absolutely no control over the product of their labor.

It doesn't matter whether the creator underwrites their own costs or a corporation does it, the same problem applies. If those who fund creative works cannot collect returns on their investment they will stop funding the work.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#224

Post by oblio »

amelius wrote: post #222

How is the "right to repair" different from "I want access to the design documents, source code and the entire supply chain for spare parts"? Where do we draw the line?

Oh, come on. Are we actually going to be on the side of these huge corps that nickel and dime us for everything? There's better hills to die on.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#225

Post by oytis »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #206
oytis wrote: post #198

The success of the whole story is going to depend on whether they will be able to push it on everyone else. Otherwise we're going to have normal phones for everyone except EU, and bulky, outdated, but repairable "europhones" in Europe. Probably good for local producers though.

I don't think the right to repair is about the design being specifically repairable (i.e. uses exclusively sockets and through-hole components), rather it's about avoiding things which are deliberately constructed to prevent repairing them and legal barriers to reverse engineering items in order to repair them. Examples are components which, while identical to the component requiring replacement, will refuse to work…

The "dick moves" can probably be tracked and forbidden, but IMO it's not the main reason why modern gadgets are hard to repair. Rather if you optimize for size, price, power consumption, performance, security, IP protection, development time etc., and just don't prioritize repairability, it naturally grows up this way.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#226

Post by arghwhat »

amelius wrote: post #221
kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

> Not necessarily "hot" swappable "Hot swappable" usually means you can swap it while the machine is turned on. At least, that's how people use the term when talking about harddrives.

That's always what it means—"hot" means "on"/"operating".

Hot-swapping a battery works by replacing a battery while the device operates from a secondary power source (e.g. charger or secondary battery).

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#227

Post by kabdib »

amelius wrote: post #221
kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

> Not necessarily "hot" swappable "Hot swappable" usually means you can swap it while the machine is turned on. At least, that's how people use the term when talking about harddrives.

Yeah, I mis-spoke.

Swappable is better.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#228

Post by kabdib »

fragmede wrote: post #218
kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

How much are you willing to pay for such batteries? For larger electronics that take double A batteries, this exists, but at a premium! These things are lithium-whatever and USB rechargable, but at $5 per, easy to dismiss. While dismissing them, consider where the "those don't count" retort is coming from. It's fair to point out that electronics have gotten small enough to the point that they don't fit AA batteries a…

I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount to replace a failing rechargeable battery. If it's 20 or 30 bucks to get another three years out of a pair of wireless headphones, okay. I suspect that with standardized cells (perhaps a few dozen sizes? certainly more than the gamut of A/AA/AAA/C/D etc cells we currently have in the consumerverse, because device form factors vary widely) they would be cheaper.

But having to essentially defeat an end-user-hostile industrial design should be strongly discouraged.

I can dream.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#229

Post by lotsofpulp »

droithomme wrote: post #220
kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

> I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a few years. Also alarming is all the Apple crap where the hard drive, that lasts at most 2 years, is impossible to replace without great risk to the device, special replacement gaskets, etc, and when you do it turns out the original had a proprietary tempera…

> Also alarming is all the Apple crap where the hard drive, that lasts at most 2 years

Source? I’ve never experienced this using even low quality hard drives. If you’re including SSDs, then between 15 to 20 Apple products over the past decade plus have not had an issue within 2 years.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#230

Post by abawany »

kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

I agree. I have an older mbp with a glued battery and trying to get it replaced has been horrendous. Apple Store wants a lot of money and they then 'forgot' to call me when I went in with an appointment resulting in a bunch of wasted time, the authorized independent shops are super hobbled in that they have to keep the laptop for days and order a battery, and the online market for replacement batteries has been shady. It is plain and simple planned obsolescence and I really despise it. Edit: my personal laptop, a HP Elite X360, has a user-replaceable battery - I wish I could persuade my work to let me use/buy another for work stuff. Edit2: text fixes.
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