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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#161

Post by mathnovice »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #135
jeremyjh wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

We don't have to accept it, people aka the power of majority does the rules. I see no benefits or the people shilling it are doing a bad job. Either way it's for us to accept it or make the concepts.

You are wrong. While the majority can create the rules the people that matter aren't the majority but creators and skilled professionals. When someone creates something they have absolute power over it until they reveal it to the world. They can even choose to destroy what they create rather than reveal it.

When the majority (consumers) decide they want everything for free and that they want absolute power over the creations of others creators will simply stop revealing what they create and stop making their creations available for purchase. Instead creating things for private use.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#162

Post by eeZah7Ux »

listsfrin wrote: post #53
lm28469 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the logic is that we shouldn't do anything because nothing has been done yet ? Europe probably has the strictest car emissions laws (so strict manufacturers have to cheat to comply with it), and many of its country banned single use plastic bags, straws, &c.

Maybe on paper they do. In reality you pay 20 Euro as bribe and you can get away with anything.

"people are corrupted therefore europe bad"

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#163

Post by robert_foss »

chongli wrote: post #152
robert_foss wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you are saying, but pouring oil into the ground or driving without headlights is against the common interests of most people. Being able to repair things is very different, it is _in_ the common interest and likely against the interests of the manufacturers.

Well, there are potential issues with people repairing their own phones. They could use the wrong (or counterfeit) part and cause the phone to emit radiation that interferes with nearby communications. Or they could use the wrong (or counterfeit) battery or even damage the battery during replacement, potentially causing a fire hazard.

Typically people aren't replacing the antennas or radio amps, so I'd keep the radiation issue in the theoretical bin.

As for bad parts and bad repair jobs, sure. I would think that owners are incentivized to buy parts that are safe and to install them correctly. Of course some battery batches will be bad, but that's true for authentic parts too. Remember the Samsung Note battery issues?

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#164

Post by numpad0 »

danShumway wrote: post #131
econcon wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if this law is passed, companies will start subscription service where you'll be renting phones instead of owning then. Then onus and exclusive right for repair/replacement will stay with the smartphone company.

If you're currently licensing the software on your phone instead of buying a copy of it, then the situation today isn't really better. You pay the full cost of the device, but you don't own it, and companies retain the exclusive right for repair/replacement. But, they don't have any onus for repair/replacement, and you need to pay full price for a new device if your current one gets damaged. An honest rental system m…

Aren’t we just allowing the idea of licensing contract overwhelm ourselves for little reasons?

When you buy a book, you own the hardware but not IP. You’re “licensed a nonexclusive irrevocable right to use, that allows reverse engineering but without sublicensing clauses” aka you can’t xerox the full book and sell it for $5. When you buy a sandwich, same except hardware can be eaten.

Really the deal of “mandatory licensed” software is that you can’t pirate it, and that should already be covered by laws. It should not require a million page contract and those contract mustn’t be much more than blank pages.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#165

Post by nradov »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #104
jeremyjh wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

Withing the next 10-15 years 95% of household appliances and furniture will have a chip in them, to enable some type of IoT functionality. All of them will be licensed, almost abolishing private ownership. If we idly accept licensing of everything, we will enjoy what will be basically serfdom. People that were writing these laws never imagined they would prevent you from repairing a cat-feeder or a lighting system. T…

Agreed on appliances, but I don't believe that 95% of new furniture like tables and couches will contain an IoT chip within 15 years. Hardly anyone is working on that.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#166

Post by umvi »

cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

> shouldn't you be be able to ... modify it however you want

Not necessarily. Consider products that require radios like satellite internet transceivers. If you were allowed to "modify it however you want" you could easily modify it to put up a continuous wave and effectively DoS the satellite gateway, causing an outage for all other customers on the entire beam which is obviously something the ISP wants to avoid at all costs.

Hence, many companies only allow you to lease the transceiver, not own. And even if you did literally own it, they obviously don't want you modifying it for fear of harming the service of other customers.

It's one thing if you buy a toaster and modify your toaster to burn cool patterns into your toast. It's quite another if you buy a toaster and modify your toaster such that nobody else's toaster in the neighborhood works anymore.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#168

Post by nix0n »

umvi wrote: post #166
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

> shouldn't you be be able to ... modify it however you want Not necessarily. Consider products that require radios like satellite internet transceivers. If you were allowed to "modify it however you want" you could easily modify it to put up a continuous wave and effectively DoS the satellite gateway, causing an outage for all other customers on the entire beam which is obviously something the ISP wants to avoid at…

There's already FCC rules for that sort of thing, it's illegal whether you buy, lease, "license", or even build the transceiver.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#169

Post by yoran »

econcon wrote: post #125
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I think if this law is passed, companies will start subscription service where you'll be renting phones instead of owning then. Then onus and exclusive right for repair/replacement will stay with the smartphone company.

That's the classic predicted outcome for any new regulation... which rarely turns out to be true. Consumers will want to buy their own phones and as long as that is true, businesses will adapt to the new regulations to satisfy this need.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#170

Post by nix0n »

diablo1 wrote: post #109

I bought a few dumbphones from Amazon because I am scared that smartphones will be so pervasive and that dumbphones will be slowly phased out and you will be unable to buy them anymore. Smartphones are difficult to repair because the circuitry is hermetically sealed and you need specialist tools to open them up and tinker. Dumbphones, not so much. The parts are accessible and can be swapped out with working parts eas…

Do you mean "feature phones" or landlines?
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