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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#71

Post by Shivetya »

Depending on how this is handled it could backfire and we end up with more pollution as people discard used parts. For some items, like adding easily swap of batteries may open the devices to easier contamination. However if right to repair is contained to authorized repair centers; which is currently how warranties are preserved in many countries; then it might still pass provided someone with the right tools can do it safely.

As for the software side this may be a tough one as many times a change in chipset can make features available in newer models that are not in older models and the real question is, how far back must they provided like software upgrades that new models have? iOS goes back quite a ways, is that not enough now? That my prior iMac no longer had support from Nvidia (2013 model) is whose fault? Apple's or Nvidias?

What people need to understand is that replacement parts may involve complete assemblies because there is no feasible means to replace some of the pieces in common tablets and phones. So take a dryer, you might need to replace an entire motor but depending on how the regulation is written that may not be sufficient.

tl;dr it all sounds well and good until those who have no understanding of repair start writing regulations that could lead to less reliable items, more electronics and batteries in the trash, and even most costly items.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#72

Post by lm28469 »

listsfrin wrote: post #53
lm28469 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the logic is that we shouldn't do anything because nothing has been done yet ? Europe probably has the strictest car emissions laws (so strict manufacturers have to cheat to comply with it), and many of its country banned single use plastic bags, straws, &c.

Maybe on paper they do. In reality you pay 20 Euro as bribe and you can get away with anything.

You should look into VW's scandal and check how much they got fined. Last time I checked it was multiple billions. Something like 10%+ of their annual profit.

The only thing you might get away with is bribing a cop for a speeding ticket in some rural part of an eastern EU country. Anything else will eventually be discovered and you'll be fined accordingly.

I could understand your personal point of view if you live east of Poland though.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#73

Post by schrijver »

listsfrin wrote: post #62
simion314 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, most of the time the issue is a small component from a big system failing. This large companies should not block a competent repairman to diagnose and replace the broken part. I am not asking companies to make Lego phones just don't block people with DRM,copyright and supply chain restrictions.

They block competent repairman? Or they ask money for competent repair?

Companies often have the monopoly on repair for their products because they don’t make the parts and diagnostic tools available. Yes, they ask money for repair, but there also plenty of repairs they flat out refuse to do. Apple refuses to repair phones with water damage for example. Repairs that repair shops might be happy to do, if they had the access to parts.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#74

Post by tremon »

fastball wrote: post #27
rndgermandude wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you'll be out of luck. Same as you cannot legally buy leaded fuels in most countries anymore, even tho you might prefer them, and same as Bayer will not sell you Heroin(tm) to treat your cough anymore.

Wait so you think you should not be allowed to buy "unrepairable" devices?

Of course you should be allowed that. It's just that no one will be allowed to sell you one.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#75

Post by simion314 »

listsfrin wrote: post #62
simion314 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, most of the time the issue is a small component from a big system failing. This large companies should not block a competent repairman to diagnose and replace the broken part. I am not asking companies to make Lego phones just don't block people with DRM,copyright and supply chain restrictions.

They block competent repairman? Or they ask money for competent repair?

Apple does not allow the companies that make chips from their laptops to also sell those chips for people that want to repair this laptops. So this repair people need to "illegally" obtain the chips from someone at the factory.

Apple also threatens you with lawyers if you host or share schematics for repairing products. The new repair partner program from Apple is also a joke and created to appear they are trying to fix the problem.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#76

Post by jka »

Funes- wrote: post #31

Being guaranteed the right to repair from every manufacturer is great and, more importantly, much needed. Nonetheless, most people abide by the culture fabricated by those very corporations, which is defined by an annual release cycle of devices which are minimally upgraded deliberately, their selling point usually being something visibly different from the previous year's smartphones--currently, being foldable or ha…

Assuming high-tech early adopters continue to buy new devices as they are released, repairability and recyclability can still make a large difference to the secondary market for refurbished and reused devices.

If devices are locked down and become 'bricks' once their original owner is finished with them -- then they're unable to provide any more value.

Alternatively if they can be erased, upgraded and continue to function -- and ideally share components with other devices -- then the device and production cost continue to generate value.

We have a problem with quantifying and justifying that 'second-order value' since we often think only of the initial consumer's payment (be it one-time or recurring).

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#77

Post by linuxftw »

qayxc wrote: post #63
lnsru wrote: post #37

That will end in another monstrosity like WEEE making entry for hardware startups harder and harder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electro... Only big players with dedicated departments will comply easily. And about right to repair I have bad experience: broken cable is enough for lots of buyers to throw away electronic appliances. Let’s be honest: majority of users will cause more harm than do…

> Let’s be honest: majority of users will cause more harm than do good when repairing something. What kind of argument is that? Right to repair isn't about you and me fiddling about with with broken appliances. It's about qualified and licensed people in repair shops being able to acquire parts and schematics to do their job. No one is arguing that your average Jane or Joe should be ones doing the repair! That's just…

> qualified and licensed people in repair shops

In the US, anyone can repair a vehicle and not void the warranty. No license needed.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#78

Post by pjc50 »

A primary source referenced: https://ec.europa.eu/environment/circular-economy/pdf/new_ci...

It looks like a "right to repair" for appliances has already been adopted. https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/energy-efficiency/energy-...

Note e.g. the requirements for monitors: https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/ener/files/documents/c-201...

This is in many ways the opposite of the cookie law in that it specifies pretty precisely what outcome has to be achieved.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#79

Post by paulryanrogers »

simion314 wrote: post #22
TomMarius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly does this change the fashion of buying the latest iPhone-looking phone every second year? The older devices are perfectly functioning, they just don't look like the owners wish. Most people I know have a drawer full of 100% working phones, some broken displays here and there but that is trivial to have repaired today.

Don't iPhone look very similar? why do people need a new one? There are probably many answers depending on person, some just want latest and greatest, some people were affected by the battery issue(while it was hidden from them), some people break the phone and don't have an Apple store near or don't have the time to wait for a repair and they get a new phone. Sometimes the updates make the old phones slow or incompa…

Apparently they are different enough that people mod them to look like year-later models. Since these wouldn't have different capabilities it can only be for asthetics or social signaling.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#80

Post by cs702 »

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?
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