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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#131

Post by danShumway »

econcon wrote: post #125
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I think if this law is passed, companies will start subscription service where you'll be renting phones instead of owning then. Then onus and exclusive right for repair/replacement will stay with the smartphone company.

If you're currently licensing the software on your phone instead of buying a copy of it, then the situation today isn't really better.

You pay the full cost of the device, but you don't own it, and companies retain the exclusive right for repair/replacement. But, they don't have any onus for repair/replacement, and you need to pay full price for a new device if your current one gets damaged.

An honest rental system might be preferable. At least then people would know what they're getting into. At least when I rent a device, there's some real obligation for the actual owner to fix it when it breaks. At least then companies who legitimately sell their devices and don't block repair efforts would have a marketing edge.

By all means, let people rent software. Just make sure companies are correctly marketing that as a rental.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#132

Post by bluGill »

cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night.

Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#133

Post by TomMarius »

simion314 wrote: post #22
TomMarius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly does this change the fashion of buying the latest iPhone-looking phone every second year? The older devices are perfectly functioning, they just don't look like the owners wish. Most people I know have a drawer full of 100% working phones, some broken displays here and there but that is trivial to have repaired today.

Don't iPhone look very similar? why do people need a new one? There are probably many answers depending on person, some just want latest and greatest, some people were affected by the battery issue(while it was hidden from them), some people break the phone and don't have an Apple store near or don't have the time to wait for a repair and they get a new phone. Sometimes the updates make the old phones slow or incompa…

We're talking about Europe, iPhone is the minority here. Most phones are Androids, so no battery issue of iPhone is much relevant, same with Apple Stores.

Any phone (including iPhone) can be taken to nearly any service shop and it will probably be repaired within a day for an affordable price (if they have all parts, which they can order no problem; tools are not a problem a tall).

They also don't want the latest and greatest because that costs them way too much, most phones are mid market here, and the capabilities of these phones don't change much (same hardware for a number of years is not an exception) - but the design does. And no, the display notch is a very distinct status symbol that made the upgrade very much needed, same with multiple cameras on the back.

The few people who are buying Apple can choose between Apple stores, official Apple resellers and also a huge selection of unofficial (called "post-warranty") service shops. Not sure if it's OK with Apple, but it's definitely legal here, and it doesn't seem like these people have any problems with getting parts, getting tools or repairing the phones, but I agree that there should be an official way of doing so.

It's true that some phones became unusable with and because of software updates - that is wrong, but also an unrelated issue.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#134

Post by TomMarius »

efdee wrote: post #32
TomMarius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly does this change the fashion of buying the latest iPhone-looking phone every second year? The older devices are perfectly functioning, they just don't look like the owners wish. Most people I know have a drawer full of 100% working phones, some broken displays here and there but that is trivial to have repaired today.

Most people you know have a drawer full of 100% working phones? I guess that suffices to conclude that you have an extremely a-typical social circle.

But the point still stands - older phones are perfectly capable (and these phones are very repairable, too), just not beautiful enough. Some people having drawers of them signifies that even though these phones work, there is no demand for them.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#135

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

jeremyjh wrote: post #82
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

We don't have to accept it, people aka the power of majority does the rules. I see no benefits or the people shilling it are doing a bad job. Either way it's for us to accept it or make the concepts.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#136

Post by cs702 »

bluGill wrote: post #132
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

Of course, but note that in both of your examples those limits are in place to make sure you don't inflict significant costs or damages on the rest of humankind. The limits you mention prevent you from making roads unsafe for everyone else at night and from poisoning the ground on which everyone else lives.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#137

Post by bluGill »

simion314 wrote: post #49
userbinator wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, a car that "pollutes 100x more then the norms" is also very likely to be the most repairable...

Most cars are repairable, there is an industry of alternative parts, you go to a mechanic, he plugs the laptop with the software , find the problem, then you chose from a website with parts the one you want , you have different alternatives. Also you can visit places with scraped cars and you can find parts there for cheap. There is no DRM at the moment to stop you reusing a door from a different car or a door made b…

On a car most electronics are locked to the one VIN and it is difficult or impossible to change the part to a new VIN latter.

This is done to ensure that "strippers" will not steal a car for the parts since the most valuable parts can't be sold.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#138

Post by Buttons840 »

bluGill wrote: post #132
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

It would be more accurately stated:

I am allowed to remove my headlights, but I'm not allowed to drive on the roads if I have removed my headlights. The restriction is on roads.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#139

Post by herbstein »

bluGill wrote: post #132
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

You're completely right. The distinction is that it's not the firm building your house forbidding you from pouring oil on the grass. It's government regulation. The same approach should be towards people, as an example, modifying the radio in their phones.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#140

Post by ajayyy »

bluGill wrote: post #132
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

I own my home, but I'm not allowed to pour oil on the ground even though it would only destroy my own grass. I own my car, but I'm not allowed to remove the headlights and drive at night. Exactly where we place the limits is up for debate, but I think I conclusively proved to everybody reading this that there need to be limits the only question is where.

You are allowed to remove the headlights, you just can't drive it on public roads
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