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Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

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Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#171

Post by ramphastidae »

lostgame wrote: post #161
westmeal wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

You’d probably lose the extra salary to overpriced and subpar health insurance, education, housing, and retirement.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#172

Post by sa46 »

fabianhjr wrote: post #146
elif wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it has to do with the paperwork you sign when you enlist. Basically waiving a lot of your normal American rights.

> Basically waiving a lot of your normal American rights. "waiving your rights" is a very weird concept, particularly in the "land of the free".

The rights are not necessarily waived but are subordinate to military regulations (UCMJ) in order to promote "good order and discipline". Discipline is a critical factor in the effectiveness of military units. The courts have typically trusted rulings of military courts since civilian courts are not necessarily well equipped to understand how a ruling would impact the military.

Here's a good overview of the context for limiting the rights of military personnel: https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1131/military-perso...

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#173

Post by lopmotr »

lostgame wrote: post #161
westmeal wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

Before you write off 50 million people as "seriously disturbed", you should find out their motives. Not the cherry-picked mockery of them you see on social media, but their more common motives. To make such a crude judgement as you did, you have to be ignoring some huge factor. If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. This applies generally to many controversial ideas. Being unable to see it from any other point of view doesn't make you right.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#174

Post by ohyeshedid »

FpUser wrote: post #167
ohyeshedid wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it's going to be hard for her to find employment, and if she doesn't pay those fines she'll eventually end up in custody with even more fines.

Do you mean the if the person is physically unable to pay the fine they would keep said person imprisoned? This is effin' crime on it's own. I wish some country like Iceland would just offer her a refugee status (assuming she would want it). This whole thing is really depressing.

I wouldn't think the length of imprisonment would be longer than it would take to see a judge in most cases.

The cycle I'm referencing is usually fail to pay your fines, at some point dependent upon jurisdiction and familiarity to the court, arrest warrant is issued, if caught you are arrested and taken to jail to be held until you see a judge, accrue more fines, possibly repeat.

I'm not making statements that this will happen, only that it absolutely can and does happen to people.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#175

Post by aeyes »

lopmotr wrote: post #173
lostgame wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

Before you write off 50 million people as "seriously disturbed", you should find out their motives. Not the cherry-picked mockery of them you see on social media, but their more common motives. To make such a crude judgement as you did, you have to be ignoring some huge factor. If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. This applies generally to many controversial id…

If you know their motives, would you please be kind enough to share them with us? As an outsider it is kind of hard to see through superficial news posts.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#176

Post by ngcc_hk »

lopmotr wrote: post #173
lostgame wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

Before you write off 50 million people as "seriously disturbed", you should find out their motives. Not the cherry-picked mockery of them you see on social media, but their more common motives. To make such a crude judgement as you did, you have to be ignoring some huge factor. If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. This applies generally to many controversial id…

What are these motives especially the commoner, not the rich? Even the Christian I found years to understand ... and use final court and abortion as an excuse. What are motives ?

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#177

Post by surge »

joshgachnang wrote: post #168
surge wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the way to settle differences between the branches is to use the third branch, the Judicial branch. Congress takes them to supreme/federal court, which decides if the subpoenas are valid and would then enforce the subpoenas and the executive branch then has to comply. Basic checks and balances. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/house-demo... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/d…

Congress already had the judicial branch confirm they have the power to hold people in contempt, but they didn't use that power in this case. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurney_v._MacCracken

So do it again.

Honestly though, I think the impeachment just pointed out the Ukraine stuff about as much as it pointed out Trump's phone call shenanigans, it wasn't good for them politically to keep at it, his approval rating was going up and he was raising tons of money during it. It was backfiring politically for them, the majority of the public wasn't interested (especially after the Russia thing coming up empty, you can only cry wolf so many times) and it brought their own misdealing to light so they didn't push it as they would if they really cared.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#178

Post by FpUser »

sudoaza wrote: post #65
clairity wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Maybe I don’t understand this system..." sounds like you understand the system pretty well. the US is grounded in a limited federal government and the right to vigorously oppose it (short of, say, revolt) without persecution (see: bill of rights). holding manning in jail for so long was persecutory and unjust.

Manning and Assange must eat the stick so the rest of the people learn not to mess with the Authority. Must make sure that no journalist dares to even touch any future leak. Dare I remind that Greenwald has a capture order in Brasil.

Really? I thought the whole idea of free "free" was that people do mess with the Authority to keep it in check.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#179

Post by bsanr2 »

lopmotr wrote: post #173
lostgame wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

Before you write off 50 million people as "seriously disturbed", you should find out their motives. Not the cherry-picked mockery of them you see on social media, but their more common motives. To make such a crude judgement as you did, you have to be ignoring some huge factor. If you conclude that factor is "they're stupid" or "they're evil", then you haven't found it. This applies generally to many controversial id…

Black American here. We know their motives. Still ain't pretty.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#180

Post by surge »

lostgame wrote: post #161
westmeal wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

Especially given its current leadership, I often turn away jobs of more than two times my salary - in USD (I live in Canada) - to avoid living in America. That Trump ever got elected - or was ever seriously considered as a candidate - tells me that enough of the the population is seriously disturbed that I’d like nothing to do with it. And then there’s the war atrocities...

You do realize she was jailed and charged under Obama right?

This was the President that was supposed to shine a light on corruption and protect whistleblowers when they first campaigned.

The joke here is you think there's that much of a difference. One acts bad and does bad things, the other acts good and does bad things. The only difference is the media loved the last one and hates the new one.

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