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Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

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Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#91

Post by wespiser_2018 »

program_whiz wrote: post #68

Meta point: do we have to accept deception as a necessary part of sales? It seems strange that we accept deception and manipulation as necessary ingredients in the market, and that its on the buyer when they "get duped". But couldn't we have a standard where literally anything anyone says to a customer must be true, or was not false to the knowledge of the person saying it? Scammy warranties, timeshares, and other "g…

"do we have to accept deception as a necessary part of sales?" I would like to think "no", but as someone who's worked building a technical product, which is then turned around and sold, it's hard not to feel like portraying your work in the best possible light, combined with moderately effective sales techniques, leaves the buyer with a strictly inaccurate impression of what the products capabilities are.

I'm not okay with saying these situations are unavoidable, but I think they arise pretty naturally out of situations where people are paid to make a sale, and people hear what they want to hear.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#92

Post by godshatter »

duxup wrote: post #10
eCa wrote: post #6

This is about Norwegian Cruise Line, and not the airline Norwegian.

Alternative confusion: I assumed it was a weirdly worded title about the country... but then I wondered why they had a 'Sales Team'.

I at first thought it was a story about a citizen of Norway that was pressuring a sales team somewhere to lie about the virus.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#94

Post by Jommi »

sharken wrote: post #72
socialdemocrat wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian I want to point out that there are no Norwegian owners of Norwegian Cruise Lines. It is to my knowledge fully American owned. It was Norwegian long time ago. Sorry just don’t want to get us associated with such extremely unethical behavior. Frankly it ought to be punishable in the justice system.

Good point! I can add that the name Norwegian is associated with the Airline company here in the nordics. So using just Norwegian in the headline is unfortunate.

The headline needs to be changed.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#95

Post by godshatter »

hannob wrote: post #50

This is of course all horrible, but I seriously wonder who at this point thinks: "Let's book a trip on a cruise ship right now!"

Lots of the people booked on cruise ships right now probably made their reservations months ago. That's how we did it on the cruise we went on last year. Put down a deposit to reserve a room in September, paid in April, sailed in August.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#96

Post by godshatter »

dboreham wrote: post #26
sonicxxg wrote: post #7

This recent coronavirus outbreak has been very enlightening, cause it gaves us more information on why cruises are a bad idea, and perfect for an epidemic. The same air is recirculating among all cabins. However, it does not explain why we haven't heard of flu outbreaks in cruises before this coronavirus. It seems cruises are perfect for the proliferation of any airborne virus.

I'm interested in what the known spreading instances on ships and at conferences tell us about how the virus is transmitted. As I understand it, the message from CDC etc is, roughly: It's transmitted through droplets coughed or sneezed from one person that then end up through common touching of not-cleaned surfaces and thence into the body through face-touching. My gut feel is that if that's how transmission occurs,…

Not sure about conferences, but for cruise ships buffets would be my guess. Most people on cruise ships eat at least a few meals at an overcrowded buffet. Multiple people touching serving utensils, stacks of plates, fishing for silverware, etc. Not to mention sneezing around open food containers.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#97

Post by mech1234 »

12xo wrote: post #78
mech1234 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising fraud is already illegal. The situations where case law dictates what is illegal are varied and nuanced. As a side note, there are many categories of claims that fall in neither "provably true" nor "provably untrue", and enforcing upon these claims is tricky. You can google for "advertising fraud precedent" "advertising fraud case law" and "advertising fraud case studies" for more information.

Right... That’s why you have an “unlimited” data plan that is “guaranteed” or it’s “free”... There is no such thing as truth in advertising. There is only a Make Lawyers Rich lawsuit..

Don't those unlimited plans state that data may be throttled, etc? Unless you cite a specific example it's pretty tough to argue against.

To argue against your theoretical case: If there is a data plan that advertises unlimited data without giving any fine print describing the throttling behavior, or other strange details after high data usage, then yes, they should be able to have false advertising claims pressed against them successfully.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#98

Post by jjeaff »

martinhath wrote: post #59
ericmay wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then if 98% is already renewable, why keep pumping oil out of the ground and contributing to global warming? (Hint: money) I don't really think there's a way around this for Norwegians. If you're upset about climate change (and you should be) then you should also be honest that continuing to extract and sell oil is contributing to the problem. It's nice that Norway has a small, homogenous population in a countr…

You criticize Norway for continuing to pump up oil, which you attribute to greed, and then, in the same comment, point out that many other countries don't have the opportunities for renewable energy that Norway (allegedly) has. Do you not see a connection here? > It's nice that Norway has a small, homogenous population in a country with low population density, great education This all seems off-topic to me. > But I t…

He is pointing out that Norway's massive oil wealth and small, homogenous, educated population makes pursuing green energy goals much easier.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#99

Post by mech1234 »

a3n wrote: post #88
mech1234 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising fraud is already illegal. The situations where case law dictates what is illegal are varied and nuanced. As a side note, there are many categories of claims that fall in neither "provably true" nor "provably untrue", and enforcing upon these claims is tricky. You can google for "advertising fraud precedent" "advertising fraud case law" and "advertising fraud case studies" for more information.

> Advertising fraud is already illegal. Yeah, OK. But here's what happens if a company gets publicly caught. "At ConCo we take ethics seriously. The statements by the employees in question are not in line with ConCo's policies and practices. Those employees will be burned alive, then put on a personal improvement plan, and then their heads will be displayed on pikes at their respective places of employment."

I think punishing or firing the employees is appropriate. It is often, but not always, also appropriate for those employees to have criminal punishments imposed on them.

I suppose you think that current norms for these punishments are too lax. It's not easy to tell what you actually believe though. If you want to tease out your own actual beliefs on this, look up some advertising fraud cases and find one that was punished too loosely, and find one that was punished too severely.

Re: Leaked Emails: Norwegian Pressures Sales Team to Lie About Coronavirus

#100

Post by cardiffspaceman »

godshatter wrote: post #95
hannob wrote: post #50

This is of course all horrible, but I seriously wonder who at this point thinks: "Let's book a trip on a cruise ship right now!"

Lots of the people booked on cruise ships right now probably made their reservations months ago. That's how we did it on the cruise we went on last year. Put down a deposit to reserve a room in September, paid in April, sailed in August.

Cruises mostly get more expensive towards the date of departure, so booking in advance is the thing to do if your ability to take the time for a cruise is predictable. I have a cruise scheduled for March 2022. If a cruise price does go down it is because they overestimated demand, and cruisers will be watching for when the price of new bookings drops below the price they paid. The deposit, so far in advance, can be both tiny and fully refundable.
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