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Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#21

Post by agumonkey »

NicolasGorden wrote: post #13

I completely agree with the message that people-helping people is super effective. But I'd like to point out that one of the core tenants of AA is to surrender to a higher power. I'm not advocating in favor of religion. But rather highlighting that maybe people who accept 'surrender' of their own will are more likely to get better. There's something to the concept that seems powerful. Anecdotally, I've known someone…

> Anecdotally, I've known someone who used to be stressed out and controlling. Last time I saw him he was not so stressed. He said his life changed once he surrendered and accepted his destiny. He didn't go religious or anything, just 'accepted' his fate.

That's something I think about slightly. A lot of adult life is anxiety based on seeking optimal something. After years it feels like fear of death causing over analysis and cramping. Then you just go back into average life and maybe (at least my belief) realize it's ~peak. The anxiety is maybe even a nature trick to make us learn adult life complexity and maybe improve the status quo a bit.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#22

Post by snurfer »

billjings wrote: post #17
snurfer wrote: post #7

Anecdotally, self-help is an effective approach not mentioned in the article.

It works for a lot of people. For many people, particularly the worst cases, it does not. Most people who end up in AA have tried self-help already.

For people who lack willpower and who suffer the continual moral failing of their dependency on alcohol, AA is an option.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#23

Post by billjings »

xfitm3 wrote: post #11
Agenttin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always have an AA meeting in VR Chat. In fact, I'd be surprised if there isn't one.

Doing it virtually makes it hard to retain the "anonymous" part of AA.

That's an interesting point. I think that's a different sense of the word "anonymous," though.

There's a strict sense of the word "anonymous" that is from the tradition of writing: an anonymous letter, for example, or the sense in which 4chan users are anonymous. It means "this person has no unique identity at all, other than what one can infer from this written word." This is the kind of anonymity that e.g. Facebook has fought against with their policy that accounts should have real names.

There is another sense in which "anonymous" is used that is common to all kinds of secret societies, though, and that is simply public anonymity as a member of the society. You don't wear a pin or make it known that you are an active member, except maybe to specific individuals that have need of that knowledge. But within the society itself, you very much have a distinct identity.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#25

Post by ceejayoz »

saberience wrote: post #20
NicolasGorden wrote: post #13

I completely agree with the message that people-helping people is super effective. But I'd like to point out that one of the core tenants of AA is to surrender to a higher power. I'm not advocating in favor of religion. But rather highlighting that maybe people who accept 'surrender' of their own will are more likely to get better. There's something to the concept that seems powerful. Anecdotally, I've known someone…

I think there's a major understanding of this part of AA. This DOES NOT mean acknowledging that you believe there is a god. The concept of a "higher power" can mean anything you want it to mean. You can imagine your higher power is Gandalf, Sauron, elves at the bottom of the garden, or even some aspect of your "best self." You could imagine it to be the spirits of your ancestors or even something like the energy of t…

I suspect that's a YMMV scenario that may differ enormously from AA group to AA group.

My son's in Cub Scouts and we take this approach with the "duty to God" requirements (he doesn't have a duty to God, so duty fulfilled!) but some troops require a bit more than that.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#26

Post by eeZah7Ux »

saberience wrote: post #20
NicolasGorden wrote: post #13

I completely agree with the message that people-helping people is super effective. But I'd like to point out that one of the core tenants of AA is to surrender to a higher power. I'm not advocating in favor of religion. But rather highlighting that maybe people who accept 'surrender' of their own will are more likely to get better. There's something to the concept that seems powerful. Anecdotally, I've known someone…

I think there's a major understanding of this part of AA. This DOES NOT mean acknowledging that you believe there is a god. The concept of a "higher power" can mean anything you want it to mean. You can imagine your higher power is Gandalf, Sauron, elves at the bottom of the garden, or even some aspect of your "best self." You could imagine it to be the spirits of your ancestors or even something like the energy of t…

> You can imagine your higher power is Gandalf, Sauron, elves at the bottom of the garden

That's quite cheeky.

Telling people to believe in a "higher power" simply translates into the gods in the mainstream religion in the society they live in.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#27

Post by tanseydavid »

snurfer wrote: post #10
Supermancho wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that doesn't mean it is a successful program Chronic Alcoholics had limbs (hands) cut off during early history. It wasn't very successful comparatively or maybe it wasn't "the best". The best known behavioral solution is the best behavioral solution qualitatively (which is a mix of programs, statistically). But calling such a program (as AA) something non-successful means you've using different criterion than the b…

The silent majority of sober people are those who quit drinking using self-help. Those people don't talk about their program.

Do you have a link or citation for that? Is this just your impression that you are relating?

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#28

Post by billjings »

snurfer wrote: post #22
billjings wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works for a lot of people. For many people, particularly the worst cases, it does not. Most people who end up in AA have tried self-help already.

For people who lack willpower and who suffer the continual moral failing of their dependency on alcohol, AA is an option.

I really take issue with this characterization. Please have some respect and humility: addiction is a serious matter, and this characterization of addicts as weak-willed and immoral is inaccurate and misleading for anyone out there who is seeking a way out.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#29

Post by bbunix »

xfitm3 wrote: post #11
Agenttin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always have an AA meeting in VR Chat. In fact, I'd be surprised if there isn't one.

Doing it virtually makes it hard to retain the "anonymous" part of AA.

Anonymous is at the level of press, radio and films...

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#30

Post by jayd16 »

zomg wrote: post #2

It's refreshing to see people helping people in programs like AA. I'm curious to see if the success of these programs change in the coming decades, as younger generations seem to be moving away from social interaction in favor of social MEDIA interaction. Will this have an impact on the success of programs like AA? I hope not.

The kids still talk and hang out. I don't think there's anything to worry about.
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