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MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

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Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#191

I never understood why US universities have so many more rights over their tenants than other landlords. Why do they have the right to terminate what's effectively a rental agreement with only a week's notice?

In contract law, there's a concept called force majeure ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure ), which comes into play when the normal circumstances under which the contract was signed are changed by a sudden, unpredictable event -- the proverbial "act of God." Most contracts have a force majeure clause, that either releases the parties from their contractual obligations in such an event, or substantially rel…

> reasonably strong legal argument for exercising them.

I know terribly little about law. But from what I've seen, tenants have a great deal of rights as to their status quo living conditions. The property is not hazardous to inhabit, clearly their non-student neighbors couldn't be evicted for the same reason. Seems like a court would favor the tenant here unless the university provided evidence from the government that favored their eviction.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#192
The focus has all been on colleges and universities announcing that they're closing face-face-instruction for the month/quarter/semester but we're scrambling trying to find something that works for K-12 schools.

    * Students at the college level can be counted on to self-study /to an
      extent/ if you make accommodations and provide the resources they need
    * Internet access can be taken for granted when dealing with college
      students
    * Colleges are largely beholden only unto themselves, a college typically
      doesn't *actually* need to have students complete the curriculum
      before x date because they can shuffle things around and make
      provisions internally, whereas high school students taking
      standardized exams, applying to colleges, etc. don't /necessarily/
      have that luxury.
    * Kids are slovenly and have poor hygiene,
    * Schools need to factor in National School Breakfast/Lunch programs
      and other welfare programs that absolutely rely on having all the kids
      corralled in a single place for x hours a day
    * Imagine the mess if suddenly every family without a stay-at-home parent
      suddenly had to arrange for someone to watch their elementary school
      student
    * Pretty much all colleges/universities have *some* online component to
      their education, even if it's just a portal where assignments can be
      posted. A lot of schools have no such system in place whatsoever, and
      now have to not only find such a solution but also train their faculty
      on its use and migrate/import/create the virtual classrooms, etc.
The biggest issue is that we simply don't know how localized any school closures would be or how long any closure would last. If we're the only ones to close our HS, colleges won't be very accommodating to our juniors when they're applying in the fall without having completed some class or the other. If we're the only HS closing down, the CollegeBoard isn't going to reschedule any AP exams. For all other grades, if a self-imposed closure is only a couple of weeks long, we can just take an early and extended spring break, but if it's longer than that then setting up some sort of distance learning is a must. But if it's shorter, then there's no point in scrambling about trying to reach an at-best 60% coverage of the curriculum with younger students that need considerable face-time to grasp concepts and require more interactive lessons.

It's a very tough call all around.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do we do if this virus festers for another couple of years? We can't shut down society forever.

The goal at this point should be to flatten the curve as much as possible to prevent overwhelming healthcare until a vaccine is developed and tested. Nobody thinks this is going to be a permanent measure.

I don't disagree with the flattening the curve bit, but I do wonder - my understanding is that a vaccine is at minimum a year out. Would we need to keep doing this for that entire time period, or are there other factors at play here?

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#194
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many states in the US have laws that specifically exempt colleges and universities from the majority of tenancy protections that regular landlords must abide by.

I heard something like that before, like I guess there's states (maybe most of them?) where you can't use your dorm room on your driver license for some reason. Which seems annoying if you moved across the country and don't intend to return home. or your renewals conflict with other dates when far away.

Massachusetts considers out of state students as residents eligible for jury duty so maybe they should enjoy some more protections in exchange for the public service.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#195

> Undergraduates who live in an MIT residence or fraternity, sorority or independent living group (FSILG) must begin packing and departing this Saturday, March 14. We are requiring undergraduates to depart from campus residences no later than noon on Tuesday, March 17. This is strange. Isn't the travel they are forcing quite possibly a cure worse than the disease? And are they really expecting students (many of them…

Not a lawyer, but that sure sounds shady as hell. Where I live student housing, even in a dorm, is subject to normal tenancy laws - meaning eviction requires long notice etc. Even saying to someone they need to vacate their home in less than a week could turn out very expensive for the landlord in court.

I imagine in case of the safety of the habitation there probably would be exceptions made. You know, an emergency or crisis of some kind. An act of god. I would imagine that if this went to court and the laws had a carve-out for that...

Anyone with legal knowledge of MA willing to chime in on this?

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#196
post #2

One of my coworkers daughters is affected by this. The big question this begs: If there is no refund being offered for the content shifting online from in-person, why have in-person at all? Is room and board going to be refunded? If courses being taught online is an acceptable substitute, why have caps on admission at all? Edit: Understood that infinite sized classes aren't workable for human intensive grading, inter…

Most of the value of an elite education is signaling: it proves the student had what it takes both to get into MIT, and to graduate. If MIT switched to an online-only format, that would erode the value of the latter (which, remember, is social proof, not something which is notoriously rational), while open enrollment would obliterate the former. A semester of remote teaching won't damage the brand.

> Most of the value of an elite education is signaling

Not in my case (Caltech). It was clear when I got an industry job that a BS from Caltech was at about the same level as an MS from other institutions. But if the institution is large enough, one can get an elite education by careful selection of the classes and professors, and doing the maximum in those classes rather than just getting by.

For example, take honors calculus, not weeder calculus. Don't avoid the math heavy classes. Don't waste your time with easy-A classes. If you don't find yourself studying 6 hours a day, you're not getting an elite education.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to share your final schedule with them.

What's stopping you from lying and saying that all your classes have finals on Friday? It seems kind of stupid that they'll deprive you of a dorm you paid for because of how your schedule is laid out…

most schools have some sort of database with everyone's course registration and often finals follow a regular schedule that can be derived from the student's course enrollment. I don't know why they even bother to make students tell the RA. they could just send each student's exam schedule directly to the RA and require some written notice from the professor to document exceptions.

another question is why it even matters. what are they going to do with the fraction of dorms that are empty after the first day of exams that can't wait a few more days?

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#198
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an epidemiologist, but a Boston resident. Generally, people under 30 completely ignore anything about the coronavirus here. You have people hitting a different nightclub each night, going to parties, and that sort of thing. A college town full of students who see their risk as 0.1% is not what you want right now. Now, a more sensible thing might be to close the nightclubs, bars, and parties. But the city hasn't d…

So you have tens of thousands of people, who all have been in close proximity, now exposing their risk to their family. And if these college students have any elderly family members, that could pose a serious risk. By forcing people to go home, rather than shelter in place, everyone has increased contact with others and public infrastructure where the virus could be.

Now here, you have to consider who is making the decisions.

The president of MIT was born in 1950. The Chairman of the Board was class of '73. Virtually everyone in senior leadership are in categories with 10+% mortality rates.

I'm not cynical about everything about the Institute (see my other comments, correcting cynical theories), but this is a place where I know many of the personalities involved personally, and I'm definitely very, very cynical.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#199

> Undergraduates who live in an MIT residence or fraternity, sorority or independent living group (FSILG) must begin packing and departing this Saturday, March 14. We are requiring undergraduates to depart from campus residences no later than noon on Tuesday, March 17. This is strange. Isn't the travel they are forcing quite possibly a cure worse than the disease? And are they really expecting students (many of them…

Not a lawyer, but that sure sounds shady as hell. Where I live student housing, even in a dorm, is subject to normal tenancy laws - meaning eviction requires long notice etc. Even saying to someone they need to vacate their home in less than a week could turn out very expensive for the landlord in court.

MIT has an office of the general counsel and a baker's dozen of high qualified and experienced attorneys (not including supporting staff).

It is possible they are violating the law, but it's probably worth assuming they aren't and understanding why. It may be related to the MA governor declaring a state of emergency a couple of hours ago.

Re: MIT moves all classes online for the rest of the semester

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping you from lying and saying that all your classes have finals on Friday? It seems kind of stupid that they'll deprive you of a dorm you paid for because of how your schedule is laid out…

most schools have some sort of database with everyone's course registration and often finals follow a regular schedule that can be derived from the student's course enrollment. I don't know why they even bother to make students tell the RA. they could just send each student's exam schedule directly to the RA and require some written notice from the professor to document exceptions. another question is why it even mat…

That doesn't really work, because professors move their exams all the time…
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