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Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

blogs.scientificamerican.com

121–130 of 393 posts

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#121

Let's first ensure we do all possible things as a species and a collection of communities to restabilise Earth and give ourselves a 99.5% chance of healthful survival for the next 200 years, which is probably the reasonable timeline until we can establish more or less independent non-Earth habitats that can survive without Earth indefinitely. This is like expressing the wish of wanting to run while simultaneously ign…

I beg to differ.

This is not like our ancestors have done it. They spread as far as they technologically could, simple as that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations

Some settlements survived, some died and got revived centuries later, but humans have continuously tried to settle further away, in a complex system that you can't reduced to "establish more or less independent [remote camps] that can survive without [base camp] indefinitely".

Space is more difficult only in it required more technology and resources, but it's the same (complex) expansion process that is hardwired in our specie since we were mere apes.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#122

It’s “Scientific” American yet they quote negative 300 degrees Fahrenheit. Use kelvin for low temperatures or, if you have to, at least degrees Celsius. For the benefit of the reader -300 F is 89 kelvin or -184 Celsius which is about 10 degrees c above liquid nitrogen’s boiling point.

The article is about human colonization, so Fahrenheit is more appropriate unit because it represents human compatible temperature ranges better than C or K.

[deleted]

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#123

It’s “Scientific” American yet they quote negative 300 degrees Fahrenheit. Use kelvin for low temperatures or, if you have to, at least degrees Celsius. For the benefit of the reader -300 F is 89 kelvin or -184 Celsius which is about 10 degrees c above liquid nitrogen’s boiling point.

> It’s “Scientific” American yet they quote negative 300 degrees Fahrenheit.

It's Scientific American, yes. I mean, sure, they could have used Rankine but...

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart. Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed. His silver Olympic medal also turns gold in the fire, which is supposed to suggest that he has achieved his true purpose in life. In any case…

> Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. It's alluded to a few times in the movie. Vincent never saves anything for the swim back. Vincent specifically mentions that he is living on borrowed time as he has surpassed the "number of beats expected of his heart". And there is the treadmill scene where he was barely able to hang on. Remember that the training was to sele…

You have to work pretty hard to take the perspective that Vincent dies.

Vincent nearly fails the treadmill scene because he is on the edge of panicking under the stress of being revealed to be prime suspect in a murder case that might put him in jail wrongly and will blow his life's dream of getting to Titan.

It doesn't matter if they check his ID at Titan, whatever that means. He commented he is outside the police's jurisdiction on the way to Titan, he will have achieved his goal regardless of his publicly known validity after docking at Titan.

The line about going home is to illustrate that he is in fact, going home. He was always meant to be among the stars and found regular everyday life difficult. Through his teen years he studied astrophysics, he was an outcast. His home was, is and finally arrived among the stars. Vincent achieved exactly what he set out to do and so did Jerome. Jerome was upset that he was not the best swimmer, as he was designed to be and deliberately chose to walk into traffic. Jerome unable (or had no desire) to escape his own self-resentment, burns in it. Both Anton and Jerome suffer for defining themselves by their biology and the accompanied social expectations.

Jerome passes Vincent his hair as the last expression of his time on Earth. Jerome will no longer grow any hair, a natural measure of time. He has ceased to exist in a physical sense. His mission is complete in giving enough of his valid biological matter for his life and Vincent's life across time.

It is questionable what Vincent's goal in space is to do from a relational perspective.. He saved Anton from drowning twice and as lifted into space on the back of his own effort and everybody that let him pass through the system illegally. His father let him past the final checkpoint, Jerome gave his body, Anton gave him a gap in police authority, Irene did not expose his invalidity and the mission director pushed for the launch timing slot in the face of authoritative danger. What does Vincent give back for all this. A change in spirit from biological determinism to willpower over statistical fact. Not much in comparison to his launch.

Musing aside, Vincent lives.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#125
post #115

Hmm. I have always considered low-gravity to be quite a big issue for any planetary colonization. Unless some cure is invented like a genetic mutation, it would seem that there is no way of coming back to Earth after spending a lifetime in eg 0.2 G. This in mind I have always thought that Venus would make the best candidate in the solar system. With 0.9 G it would be as close as we could possible get to Earth yet how…

> And you'd mostly spend your life in bunkers underground

That's okay for many people knowing they are in the forefront of humanity's interplanetary expansion. Also, probably whatever they do will enter the history books as epic heroic acts.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#126

Colonize the moon first: 1. plenty of solar power 2. close to earth 3. easy to launch out of its gravity well 4. lunar base technology can be iterated far more rapidly

Colonize the top of Mt Everest first? Even closer to Earth. Similar challenged. 250,000 miles closer to resupply. Very hard, a good test of colonizing technology.

If there were no cultural backslash then we would probably already have a McDonalds there :)

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colonize the top of Mt Everest first? Even closer to Earth. Similar challenged. 250,000 miles closer to resupply. Very hard, a good test of colonizing technology.

If there were no cultural backslash then we would probably already have a McDonalds there :)

Ha! Though actually you can't eat on top of Mt Everest. Your digestion stops moving at the previous base camp.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#129

It’s “Scientific” American yet they quote negative 300 degrees Fahrenheit. Use kelvin for low temperatures or, if you have to, at least degrees Celsius. For the benefit of the reader -300 F is 89 kelvin or -184 Celsius which is about 10 degrees c above liquid nitrogen’s boiling point.

The article is about human colonization, so Fahrenheit is more appropriate unit because it represents human compatible temperature ranges better than C or K.

Exactly. Very few people get this. Fahrenheit is better for communicating temperatures in daily life.

Plus we can be more precise in our language due to the expanded scale. e.g. We can say 62 degrees F, rather than 16.6667 degrees C.

Re: Saturn's largest moon may be the only place beyond Earth where humans could live

#130

Two thoughts on this topic: 1. The film Gattaca (1997), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZa83dTf4JA 2. The colonization of Venus is also a fascinating idea that isn't talked about much in comparison to the Moon or Mars. Essentially, the surface is too hot for colonization, but…

> . At this height, the temperature is a manageable 75 °C (348 K; 167 °F); or 27 °C (300 K; 81 °F) if we could get 5 km (3.1 mi) higher

I wonder -- what is the hottest air temperature humans could endure long term outdoors. Assuming you could adjust to the discomfort of warm air temps, how hot would it have to be before it's hazardous?

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