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Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

bbc.com

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Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#561
post #418
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The numbers out of Korea are nowhere near 20%. About 0.8% of cases are considered severe. 0.7% have died, and even that's gone up in the last few days as more cases progress. I don't know the specific stats of how many were severe/critical but it's probably much higher than the mortality rate. If you take a look at the age breakdown of the infected it seems they've been good about keeping it away from the elderly,…

There’s a link, right there in my post, with more recent and relevant data than you’re citing, and it is directly from the Korean health services: 59 / 6767 confirmed cases were severe or critical in Korea at the time of the report. That’s a rate of 0.89% The error bars on that estimate certainly encompass 1-2%, but they don’t span to 20%. Either Korea is doing something fundamentally different, or the 20% number is…

The numbers part is where people are confused. Becase the baseline is scetchy, depends on testing (so you risk measruing your tsting at least as much as the spreading itself) and moving. Add to that a methodology that requires a lot of domain knowledge to properly understand these numbers, and this reaction is kind of expected. Which is basically the only point I have to call the WHO, CDC and other, similar bodies out on. Explain what you are doing, why and how these things work! Especially the numbers part, I have the impression most of the panic comes from not understanding the nmbers and less the disease itself. Then people toy around with incomplete sets of these figures, usually out of date as well, and come up with stuff like 20%.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To feed off your random comment, I live in the US as well but switched all of my clocks (that I was able to) over to 24-hour time a few years ago. It just makes more sense to me. But everybody around me thinks I'm some sort of weirdo for it.

I've got a handful of software (Skype, my ereader) that don't have 24h time options. Super annoying, especially for software where all they'd have to do is use the OS time convention.

I've found that a lot of software that moved to Electron or similar solutions has trouble adhering to OS settings. Heck, even Chrome ignores my date format in the history tag. That's what you get with a technology that's not really supposed to interact with the user's OS settings much.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#563
post #517
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians have no understanding of exponential growth. They look at low numbers and think "we have a lot of time" then are surprised later when they in fact don't.

They don’t need an understanding of exponential growth, they only need to look at examples: China, extreme measures and barely contained it; Italy delayed measures, turning fast into a disaster. How many examples do we need?

But if you don’t understand exponential growth and you look at China’s example you might think (mistakenly): “they had this illness and over reacted. Look how much it hurt their economy, and it wasn’t even anything big as it turns out!” This is obviously wrong, but you can’t recognise the precipice they pulled themselves back from without understanding exponential growth itself.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That account has TEN tweets spanning 2013 - 2020. Then this thread. Don’t believe everything you read even if it sounds like a believable novel

Doesn't that increase the credibility? Most working professionals don't tweet much at all. I think I have 5 tweets in the last 10 years.

Only that the referrenced account is not the primary source. See the very first sentence.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#565
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope (and suspect) that the ECB (and Europe as a whole) will financially stand behind Italy, no questions asked (I'm a fellow European).

As the EU is mostly only its parts and everyone now in alert, I highly doubt it. Everyone is keeping their medical items to themselves now, because there is not even sufficient for their own country. EU will mostly be talk.

They are mostly talk because the EU has little actual power. Giving debt relief to Italy has to be decided by head of states. I'm pretty certain that there's a lot of public support across the EU to help Italy if they need to. If Italy cannot refinance, issuing debt backed by several countries would be an easy option. You wouldn't even need support by all EU countries, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and France backing it would be more than enough. And those would certainly be sympathetic to do that, a collapsing Euro would hit all of those states harder.

But so far, debt markets are still open and there's no reason to panic. Therefore governments focus on more pressing problems for now.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#566
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope (and suspect) that the ECB (and Europe as a whole) will financially stand behind Italy, no questions asked (I'm a fellow European).

You seem to forget that the ECB is there for the banks, not for the people or their countries.

The ECB can (and has in the past) given out cheap money under the condition that this is used for loans. They could do that again easily.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#567
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The toilet roll thing seems to be everywhere (Germany is full of "why toilet paper!" outrage as well), but do people really panic buy so much? Toilet paper is an item you buy once every few weeks or months, depending on household size, it's very high volume per unit of money so shops stock just enough to satisfy an even random distribution of individual buying times. Now if all of a sudden, triggered by news, a consi…

Seeing the same thing happen across different cultures over very different kinds of crises I came to the conclusion that this has to be a Freudian slip of the fact that people subconsciously care more about being able to keep their rear end tidy than eating.

well the other reason is that if you bulk buy things like milk and bread it will be gone off within a week

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#568

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

Please note that Lombardy has a very very good health service. The OECD put a score on this [1]: 9.9/10. This is in the top 5% across all regions. Other european regions seem to have lower average scores and their governments are not taking serious actions. [2] How the US is reacting from my perspective (italian confined near Rome) seems borderline madness. Something about this situation confuses me a lot. [1] https:…

Note that OECD's 9.9/10 is based on mortality rate and life expectancy, and therefore not a direct indicator of health service quality. Maybe the air in Italy is just very clean and the food healthy.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#569
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fixed the formatting, typos, and expanded the jargon: From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy: I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do. First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked i…

Thanks. What does tubed mean here?

I assume it meant 'intubated', in the context it would probably mean to be put on mechanical ventilation?

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#570
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fixed the formatting, typos, and expanded the jargon: From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy: I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do. First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked i…

Thanks. What does tubed mean here?

Intubated for ventilation
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