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Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

bbc.com

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Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#321

Post by Polylactic_acid »

soneil wrote: post #259
missosoup wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The united states is going to fare a lot worse. Their president is actively contradicting his own experts and essentially encouraging people to go on spreading the disease. It's going to be a clusterfuck.

He seems to just treat everything as an us-vs-them argument. I get the impression he's facing an issue where there is no "them" and trying to figure out how to win this argument. It should be almost irrelevant to the discussion, but by now he has enough appointees in various departments for the problem to grow roots.

This is pretty much how Australia is run right now. Although when there is no "Them" to blame the government makes up total nonsense and if that gets called out they say "This is has always been a problem and nothing could be done about it. 'they' would have handled it even worse than we did"

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#322

Post by shalmanese »

muyuan wrote: post #296
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

I am a Chinese living in Bay Area. What's described by the Italian doctor was exactly like the situation in Wuhan right after the lockdown for the first 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately, I think it will hit Italy harder this time, China locked down Wuhan but every other provinces send in supplies and doctors to help, just building new hospitals is not enough, and I don't see France/Germany doing the same to Italy. The US res…

It's not just the US though, you have other countries in Europe handling this abysmally like The Netherlands. Indonesia is still in the "pray to make it go away" stage despite multiple cases in Singapore being traced back to Indonesian travel (including one rich Indonesian who couldn't find anyone to treat them in Indonesia so deliberately flew to Singapore on a private plane to get healthcare).

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#323

Post by sciinfo »

xienze wrote: post #307
pengaru wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it almost feels like Trump has some secret weapons ready to save the day. You would think that, since most of the leaders are in a high risk demographic and spend large chunk of their time shaking hands with strangers, they would be more vigilant He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show.

> He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. > There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show. Can't really disagree, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the way people in the US are talking about the response now. Was the US MSM not spending all of January and February telling us "calm down, you know the common flu kills WAY more peo…

The vast majority of people don't have an intuitive understanding of exponential growth.

People not trained well in math and science don't even have/know the tools to help them understand it analytically.

We need (much) better math education for people studying all majors.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#324

Post by gran_colombia »

xienze wrote: post #307
pengaru wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it almost feels like Trump has some secret weapons ready to save the day. You would think that, since most of the leaders are in a high risk demographic and spend large chunk of their time shaking hands with strangers, they would be more vigilant He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show.

> He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. > There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show. Can't really disagree, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the way people in the US are talking about the response now. Was the US MSM not spending all of January and February telling us "calm down, you know the common flu kills WAY more peo…

You talk about the MSM as if it was a thing, and not a term of propaganda. It may explain the confusion.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#326

Post by burkaman »

xienze wrote: post #307
pengaru wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it almost feels like Trump has some secret weapons ready to save the day. You would think that, since most of the leaders are in a high risk demographic and spend large chunk of their time shaking hands with strangers, they would be more vigilant He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show.

> He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. > There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show. Can't really disagree, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the way people in the US are talking about the response now. Was the US MSM not spending all of January and February telling us "calm down, you know the common flu kills WAY more peo…

I don't remember much opposition to that order and I can't find any now.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#327

Post by Polylactic_acid »

fruffy wrote: post #148
cm2187 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Agree 2. Possibly, I don't think Macron is immune to over-reaction 3. The economic damage is the damage caused by the reaction, not by the virus itself 4. I am not talking about some rural generalist. These are infectious diseases specialists, who from what I can tell publish in the likes of the New England, I give them more credit on that topic than the average TV anchor or newspaper editor

>The economic damage is the damage caused by the reaction, not by the virus itself Exactly. I wonder what would have happened if this entire virus was treated similarly to the seasonal flu.

There aren't enough hospital beds available to treat everyone at the same time. There will be far far more deaths if you just let it run wild instead of slowing the spread.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#328

Post by knzhou »

xienze wrote: post #307
pengaru wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it almost feels like Trump has some secret weapons ready to save the day. You would think that, since most of the leaders are in a high risk demographic and spend large chunk of their time shaking hands with strangers, they would be more vigilant He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show.

> He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection. > There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show. Can't really disagree, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the way people in the US are talking about the response now. Was the US MSM not spending all of January and February telling us "calm down, you know the common flu kills WAY more peo…

It just turned out that being wrong was a political universal... when you have two parties that are completely set on disagreeing on a matter of fact, then it's guaranteed that at least one will have it wrong, at any given time. This doesn't change the fact that Trump is currently being more wrong.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#329

Post by j79 »

soneil wrote: post #259
missosoup wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The united states is going to fare a lot worse. Their president is actively contradicting his own experts and essentially encouraging people to go on spreading the disease. It's going to be a clusterfuck.

He seems to just treat everything as an us-vs-them argument. I get the impression he's facing an issue where there is no "them" and trying to figure out how to win this argument. It should be almost irrelevant to the discussion, but by now he has enough appointees in various departments for the problem to grow roots.

Not only is it the President, but also the media like Fox News. They're downplaying the severity and pushing a narrative that the left is stoking fears of coronavirus and secretly hoping for a stock market crash to win the elections.

You end up with supporters of the President even denying coronavirus exists or a conspiracy of the left. Truly frightening.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/03/07/trump-supporters-are...

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#330

Post by cma »

greedo wrote: post #299
adventured wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is cause for optimism in the numbers out of South Korea and China. Even assuming China has lied about their numbers (population ratios with Italy and South Korea vs China make that plainly clear, they lied to a large degree on the numbers), if China has managed to bring it under control through their extreme quarantine measures, then we can prevent it from killing tens of millions. South Korea seems to have con…

I think this is far too optimistic. 1. We don't know the actual reality of what's happening on the ground in China. Hubei and Italy have approximately the same population, yet Italy is suffering more proportionally. I think the obvious explanation is drastic underreporting of cases and fatalities in China. When all is said and done I think China probably has underreported by at least a magnitude if not double that. 2…

The region in Italy has something like 3x more elderly, proportionately, than Wuhan.
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