I actually want a spec that is similar to Apple's Mac Pro, there should be Zero Cables.
Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
81–90 of 188 posts
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most random doodads (e.g. internal fan controllers) have moved from using molex connectors in the past to SATA power connectors now. They have? I've literally never seen this in the wild.
I've had this fan controller in my desktop for probably five years now: https://www.thermaltake.com/commander-fp-10-port-hub-for-pwm...
Huh. That's pretty cool. I've only seen (and used) the Molex to whatever-that-connector's-called adapters, which is indeed what I used in my Threadripper build about a year ago.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually leave my monitor off UPS intentionally. While I'm away, I'd rather my workstation survive a brownout or short loss of power and if I'm actively working, it's easy enough to move the monitor's power cable to the UPS to save my work and shut down. My CPU draws ~45W at idle; my monitor draws a whopping 130W — having it on battery materially shortens the off-AC runtime.
Your monitor shouldn't draw 130W at idle. My 34" monitor is ~3W in sleep mode, 34W when on. Even my eight year old 55" TV only draws 90W when on.
Older high-end monitors with CCFL backlights could easily draw 130W. Dell's 30-inch model from 2008 was rated for typical draw of 163W and a max of 250W (when also powering speakers and USB devices).
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
A typical CPU (or SSD even) uses a voltage of 0.9V currently, surely it doesn't matter whether the motherboard is converting 12V to 0.9V or 5V to 0.9V. Back when this stuff was originally designed 12V, 5V and 3.3V was all you needed (actually with the AT standard it was just 12V for motors and 5V for logic, that was pre-CMOS). Now every component requires a different voltage (if there's any standard it might be 1.8V…
Maybe for a lot of things, but I've seen plenty of SSDs that only need 5v power, and I've never seen one that only needed 12v.
SSDs all have their own power management chips to manage their onboard voltage regulators. The flash memory itself is usually operating with 1.2V and/or 1.8V supply, and the SSD controllers are also in the neighborhood of 1V. Approximately nothing inside a modern PC uses 3.3V or 5V directly. Feeding 12V directly to the SSD won't make its power management circuits any more complicated or expensive, but it does get rid of the brown-out problem M.2 (3.3V) has with high-power drives.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#85I love computers with 12VDC native power jacks. Why? My solar-powered van (interior only, the engine is still diesel) is 12VDC everywhere, and that's good clean battery DC, not some noisy-ass AC/DC conversion. I love it so much that 2 of the last 3 computers I built (on an ATX form factor) were 12VDC native. I have external AC/DC power supplies for them, but when travelling/living in a solar-powered environment, I ge…
I'm just waiting for electric vehicles and their technology to invade the van and RV market. It would be really cool to have a solar/battery powered vehicle you can power from DC. A bus-sized RV could easily generate 5kw from current solar panels just on it's roof. Current RVs do have both 110v AC and 12v DC systems, but they're not easily integrated. 12v is too low to power bigger stuff like air conditioners (1500 w…
I'm excited for the upcoming all electric Ford Transit! That's got E-RV conversion written all over it!
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#86It was bound to happen eventually, there has been a long trend towards point-of-use regulation displacing multiple output supplies. I'm just surprised they went with 12V, and not 19V which has lower rectification losses, less power loss to wire/trace resistance, and a large existing design ecosystem from laptops where 19V has been the norm for years.
Or 24V or 36V, but alas 12V is the existing standard for legacy reasons so it's the path of least resistance for an overhaul of the PSU spec.
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Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh? Is California regulating PSU efficiency or power draw from the wall?
I don't see how regulating power draw from the wall could work for anything other than idle, because PCs very widely in power requirements and performance. Regulating efficiency makes more sense because it doesn't automatically give low-end machines a pass or ban high-end machines.
If this is the regulation I think we're talking about (would help to specify) it is precisely about idle power draw.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#88I remember the days when Microsoft and Intel would host the "PCxx" spec (where xx was the last two digits of the year) and tell everyone what all the standards for desktop machines were going to be for the next few years. Those days are gone though.
12V rail PSUs are nice for a number of reasons but I always liked that you could feed your DC input from the AC side or a battery and have a "free" UPS at the same time. It is a bit tricky with a switching supply since you don't want to have the battery seeing 25Khz power outages as the switcher turns on and off but its very doable. With a little bit of instrumentation you could have the PC itself control charging and monitoring the battery itself so only a minimal amount of hardware needed to give every motherboard its own UPS.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> +12V sense for detecting voltage drop or something This is actually the best bit, incredibly smart idea. It's a kelvin connection to ensure that you get 12V at the motherboard, regardless of power dissipation in the wire.
Why is it important to have absolute accuracy on the 12V pin?
Not absolute accuracy, but you can easily drop a few volts on transmission losses if the cable is poor or damaged.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#90I love computers with 12VDC native power jacks. Why? My solar-powered van (interior only, the engine is still diesel) is 12VDC everywhere, and that's good clean battery DC, not some noisy-ass AC/DC conversion. I love it so much that 2 of the last 3 computers I built (on an ATX form factor) were 12VDC native. I have external AC/DC power supplies for them, but when travelling/living in a solar-powered environment, I ge…
I'm just waiting for electric vehicles and their technology to invade the van and RV market. It would be really cool to have a solar/battery powered vehicle you can power from DC. A bus-sized RV could easily generate 5kw from current solar panels just on it's roof. Current RVs do have both 110v AC and 12v DC systems, but they're not easily integrated. 12v is too low to power bigger stuff like air conditioners (1500 w…
Electric vehicles are a long way from the sort of mileage that would allow them to effectively replace vans and RVs. We routinely drive 5-800 miles in a day in our van. This isn't going to be possible until battery replacement takes over from battery charging.
And yes, our van has 120VAC (1kW) available, but I prefer to use it only for things where's there no alternative (e.g. our toaster, or recharging laptops, sigh).
As far rooftop, we have the long Sprinter with about as much solar as you can get on the roof given that you need (at least) an exhaust fan. That gets us to 540W. The most I've ever seen on a van was 3kW and that was an ... insane ... physical setup.