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Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

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Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're looking at this and wondering when to get in, to bargain hunt essentially, and you're asking yourself questions like "today? next week?", you need to step back and think again. > Bear markets are paved with the blood of optimists. I agree with exercising caution in the sense that trying to time the market is difficult and probably inadvisable in general, but I don't agree that people should be careful spe…

Cash may be a perfectly fine choice over the next year. You don't have to invest in something if the conditions are not right.

Cash may be a perfectly fine choice, it could also be a very sub-optimal choice. Same goes for stocks, bonds, gold, etc. Of course you don't have to do it if the conditions are not right but knowing if the conditions are right is the tricky part.

In order for some people to beat the investment average by timing the market someone else must underperform the average. Active investment management is in general a zero-sum game in which you compete with a bunch of math PhDs at hedge funds that do it as a day job (and even they have a tough time). Of course you can win if your own analysis of when the conditions are right is better, but trying to do so is usually not recommended for individual investors.

Holding cash sounds simple but if it goes up from here how do you know when to buy? If it goes down from here how do you know when to buy? And if you never buy, over a couple decades you will almost certainly do worse (Japan is a different case because at the bubble peak their stocks were measurably more overpriced compared to almost anything else in history including where the US market is now). In the end I think the only simple thing is the advice most economics professors would give which is to give up trying to time the market and just buy a low-fee mixed stock/bond index portfolio (with the ratio based on your risk tolerance).

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The error, actually, is in the first part rather than the second. We don't know where it will be in a day or a year, but there's good reason to think we know where it will be in ten years: about twice where it is now. It might be only 1.5x or it might be 3x, but it's not very likely to fall very far outside of that range. Given that, if you have ten years to wait before you need your money, it's as good a place as an…

The counterexamples that have been brought up elsewhere on this post are Gold (still below 40 year high) and the Nikkei (still below 30 year high).

Also, the fact that the Nikkei's behavior is typically attributed, at least in part, to a demographic trend that's likely to hit the US within our lifetimes.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a retail investor (i.e. not extremely rich), you can't gain any advantage over the market that overcomes your transaction costs. Sure you can. You develop a system, learn how to find information, and make good predictions of future human behavior. You should learn the ins and outs of the product you're trading.

The efficient market hypothesis would like a word with you.

I just googled that to inform myself.

> The efficient market hypothesis in financial economics that states that asset prices reflect all available information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis

The efficient market hypothesis seems easily disproven with a number of modern examples. Climate change for example - there is significant information available, but markets act as though the information is fake. Leading investors and corporations have for decades denied the risks associated with economic growth backed on non-renewable, polluting and greenhouse-effect-causing energy sources.

The hypothesis does not account for common irrational behavior among people; that real news is considered fake, or real crises considered non-crises.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#684
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nikkei is still ~50% below its 1989 high. Hasn't even approached that level since. Downturns can go on for decades.

I didn't think this could still be true but apparently you are correct [1]. Wow. That being said, there are factors to contribute to this: - Essentially zero population growth [2] - A government and a system that propped up an insolvent banking system that likely extended the downturn significantly [3] - A massive asset bubble that we really haven't seen the likes of, not even in the subprime era. [1]: https://www.ma…

Aren't all of these factors true for China today?

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#685
post #625

I notice that there are many commenters here offering opinions on the future price of equities. Note that nobody has any idea where equity prices will be in one day, never mind one year or ten years' time. As a retail investor (i.e. not extremely rich), you can't gain any advantage over the market that overcomes your transaction costs. So relax. There's nothing to do here. If you're contributing to a retirement fund,…

Than why do I keep getting richer on my puts? Maybe it's because there are actually ways to make money during a crisis...

If you're trading options, you are not an average retail investor. Discussing puts isn't relevant for GP's situation.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why American society declined in the early 20th century when there were effectively open borders? Oh wait, no it didn’t.

A 3-month harrowing journey into unforeseen circumstances is an excellent filter, indeed. Please do not be flippant or purposely obtuse.

Please do not be flippant or purposely obtuse.

If you're saying this, the real conversation is taking place over your head.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#687
post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's much, much slower to trade directly than through a market-maker in the exchange

how does one actually technically go about that? I have no plans to do it, just been curious about it over the past few months.

In my part of the world, tell your broker that you’ve done a deal with someone, tell that someone to tell their broker that they done a deal with you. The brokers should be able to report it to the exchange for publishing. Then they should see through the clearing and settlement. Of course your brokers might feel that your little deal is just not worth the hassle, and ask you to take your business elsewhere.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to say it. It can't possibly collapse 20% in one day... can it?

Based on the rules it cannot drop _more_ than 20% in a day :-) There are examples of it happening in other countries though. Zimbabwe and Argentina come to mind for some crazy inflation and stock numbers.

> Based on the rules it cannot drop _more_ than 20% in a day

Asset pricing is not continuous. A single trade can take pricing from -18% to -X%, with X having any value between infinity and -100.

The breaker triggers at -20%. If the market crosses at -18% and then trades -25%, that trade will cross and then trip the breaker.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#690
post #672
post #625

I notice that there are many commenters here offering opinions on the future price of equities. Note that nobody has any idea where equity prices will be in one day, never mind one year or ten years' time. As a retail investor (i.e. not extremely rich), you can't gain any advantage over the market that overcomes your transaction costs. So relax. There's nothing to do here. If you're contributing to a retirement fund,…

"There's nothing to do here." Maybe. I imagine it's a trigger for some people to review their investment mix. Not saying panic sell at this particularly bad moment, but downturns are an obvious heads up for people that assumed everything would constantly rise. Changing your mix for future deposits might not be a bad idea if your current mix is higher risk than it should be for your age.

Probably want to change the mix in a few months, not right now.
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