Not being an asshole will make you more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#291

Post by jojo2000 » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

rs23296008n1 wrote: post #254

yellowapple wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those downvoting this comment: this conclusion (that HN's reader base is predominantly based in the SF Bay Area) should be entirely unsurprising given that HN is itself the product of Y Combinator, an accelerator based in the SF Bay Area that (last I checked, and from what I recall back when I worked for a startup that applied) specifically requires its incubatees to relocate (if they're not already there) to the…

It's a fair assumption that a lot of people on HN have SF viewpoint or views at least that partially align with them. Even those of us on the other side of the planet. As for your downvoters: plenty of people believe they should downvote when they simply disagree. Others believe that downvoting without a comment is fine. These two groups make HN less interesting. I actually want to know the reason why . Too many peop…

> It's a fair assumption that a lot of people on HN have SF viewpoint or views at least that partially align with them. Even those of us on the other side of the planet.

Totally agree with you ! But maybe some people misunderstood what you wrote.

I'd rather say that the crowd here is technically fit and policed enough to try to understand elaborate and forward-looking viewpoints, sometimes contrary to the doxa [0]. That makes comment so enjoyable to read. And it's also reassuring, that we can agree on some things on both sides of the planet .

edit : and some people who like to think of themselves as independent thinkers and live in SF by design or accident, will not like to see their opinions qualified as "SF" opinions. Works equally well for any part of the world.

> As for your downvoters

+1. This mechanism is a rather raw moderation system, people will abuse it to disqualify competing stances. There are options to refine it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxa

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#292

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

mirekrusin wrote: post #119

seanhunter wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We called him out on it, he sent a new version and we executed. On the big contract he tried several other small variants on this (going back and post-hoc altering wording that had been agreed, delaying things for no reason, just generally being an incredible pain in the ass to deal with in a million small ways) until we got a press release from the CEO of his (global) company saying how happy they were to work with…

Maybe his pay was based on how hard he screws it?

His profession has some of the widest opportunities for unfair financial rewards which result from ruthlessness alone, and this has traditionally often been executable within a typical office structure not materially different from the fair dealers who actually want everyone to win.

Even if he is working for the most benevolent & generous of corporations right now, the temptation to switch to a firm or org with a significant to dominant ruthlessness component will always be there.

He was just keeping up his chops.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#293

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #235

Ididntdothis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not so sure about that. When I was consultant I had several clients that were a complete pain to deal with but they also had a lot of money to spend so it was worth it in the end. When I read business biographies I get the impression that a lot of successful people/companies like Gates, Jobs, Ellison or Walmart are really hard to do business with. They will exploit you as soon as you make the slightest mistake b…

I would advise never to do business with Walmart, Apple, Microsoft as a small business. They have so much leverage over you, mistake or not things are out of your control from the start. The more work you do for them the more they take over the rest of your business. Get bigger then talk.

If the monopolist is huge enough, they control an enormous cascade of wealth transfer.

There are many points for a small business to tap into one or more of their streams in a way which everybody wins. But this usually requires that no disruption takes place. Without actually adding value (to natural resources) yourself, you are allowed to remove enough value to grow an operation having share price which can outperform the underlying monopoly.

This is a common strategy with oil & chemical companies.

They can also afford to not be a pain or make you wait until the end to be financially worth it.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#294

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 8:54 PM UTC

mikekij wrote: post #83

I totally agree. A business school professor of mine, Stuart Diamond, wrote a book called Getting More about using these ideas in negotiation. His theory is that you should always be leaving money on the table. If you're not, you're playing the short game. https://www.amazon.com/Getting-More-Negotiate-Succeed-Work/d...

When both parties leave a representative but not show-stopping amount of money on the table intentionally, this can potentiate exponential growth like nothing else.

Effectively each group gets to focus on efforts & shape the outcome in pursuit of mutual growth, with a non-lopsided good-faith buffer to start with, compared to predatory terms.

The reduction in risk and increase in functional leverage is phenomenal.

Alternatively, with a ruthless arrangement, there will be opportunity-sucking or destructive imbalances for operations across a financial spectrum, whether prosperous or underperforming at the time. Greedy ars'les thrive making surplus look & act like shortage.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#295

Post by the_burning_one » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

Goldman Sachs disagree

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#296

Post by Matticus_Rex » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 10:37 PM UTC

ta999999171 wrote: post #88

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't.

You both have different experiences, and the reality is somewhere in the middle........

No, it's not. This is something that is easily proven and could be a cause for disbarment. No big corporate lawyer is risking their career over this. Maybe something like this can happen by mistake or with some idiot with an office in a strip mall, but the idea that this is a normal stunt is silly.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#297

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #231

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even offered to buy out the other guy Why didn't this happen? That seems like an obvious outcome of the situation, unless losing the big client is enough to effectively destroy the company.

From the tone of OP's story, it seems like the other guy probably wouldn't've agreed to the buyout; seems like he had an axe to grind.

But does that matter? The other guy didn't have shares, he was owed money. If the investor provides money, there's enough money to pay the other guy off...

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#298

Post by Jommi » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

rs23296008n1 wrote: post #280

Jommi wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try anywhere in Northern Europe

Name one. Genuinely interested. Most legal systems are broken in some way to some extent. Unfair cases exist because people aren't perfect, make mistakes and/or have agendas.

Finland/Sweden. I'm not saying they perfect, or that they have no flaws.

I'm saying they are not actively poisonous, such as in US. I think it's related to how weaponized the legal system in US is compared anywhere else

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#299

Post by fuzzfactor » Sun, Mar 08, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

zelphirkalt wrote: post #141

> I really don't understand why. > So many people are straight assholes in business. Especially the more you climb the ladder. As my bootstrapped business reached $3M ARR, a wave of no-name investors approached us. Some of the term sheets more than insulted me. They sought to take control of the company without any payout for the co-founders or employees. They just wanted to capitalize a company they'd now own. > I d…

Looks like Deutsche Bank enabled Donald Trump after his dealing had proven to be less-than-honest and he was too "toxic" for regular US institutions to touch any more.

https://forensicnews.net/2020/01/03/trump-deutsche-bank-loan...

https://www.barrons.com/articles/how-deutsche-bank-helped-fi...

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#300

Post by yellowapple » Sun, Mar 08, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

s_gourichon wrote: post #266

yellowapple wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those downvoting this comment: this conclusion (that HN's reader base is predominantly based in the SF Bay Area) should be entirely unsurprising given that HN is itself the product of Y Combinator, an accelerator based in the SF Bay Area that (last I checked, and from what I recall back when I worked for a startup that applied) specifically requires its incubatees to relocate (if they're not already there) to the…

> requires its incubatees to relocate (if they're not already there) to the SF Bay Area during said incubation. Not sure "relocate" is the best word. I've been freelancer for 8 years and one of my client is a YC startup that is and has always been in Paris, France. See https://www.ycombinator.com/atyc/ "We ask the founders of each startup we fund to move to the Bay Area for the duration of their cycle" and https://ww…

If the founder (implicitly the leader or one of the top leaders) has to relocate, even for three months, then I fail to see how "relocate" is anything but the best word, especially when a company is still in a stage that would benefit from incubation.