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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#261

Post by yaur »

kelnos wrote: post #231
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even offered to buy out the other guy Why didn't this happen? That seems like an obvious outcome of the situation, unless losing the big client is enough to effectively destroy the company.

From the tone of OP's story, it seems like the other guy probably wouldn't've agreed to the buyout; seems like he had an axe to grind.

and since people that would rather grind an ax than be made whole are probably rational actors, there is almost certainly more to this story.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#262

Post by snovv_crash »

rs23296008n1 wrote: post #253
james_s_tayler wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see participatants from all over the world here all the time. They usually qualify things with phrases like "where I'm from" or "in [insert country here]. It's only the Americans that think they're the center of the world. I used to watch this Japanese show "Why did you come to Japan?" where a camera crew hangs out at Narita Airport and ambushes unsuspecting foreigners with that question and try to tag along on the…

I usually cut them slack unless they're jerks about it. A lot haven't even got a passport. That's usually fine as well: The USA is a big place. Not even talking just actual size. There are a lot of people with diverse ways of living and circumstances. But the place is so physically huge you could spend your entire life exploring it and still not run out of places to find new things and people to see and meet. If it h…

It really isn't so diverse though. Same language, same retail and restaurant chains, same cars, same TV channels, same currency, same political system, same sides in war back to 1800s (and even that is a large portion of remembered history).

Compare it to Europe, where a 3 hour drive gives you different food, language, holidays, religion, festivals, type of beer, different political system, different history going back 1000+ years... and another 3 hour drive does it all over again.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#263

Post by snovv_crash »

rs23296008n1 wrote: post #254
yellowapple wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those downvoting this comment: this conclusion (that HN's reader base is predominantly based in the SF Bay Area) should be entirely unsurprising given that HN is itself the product of Y Combinator, an accelerator based in the SF Bay Area that (last I checked, and from what I recall back when I worked for a startup that applied) specifically requires its incubatees to relocate (if they're not already there) to the…

It's a fair assumption that a lot of people on HN have SF viewpoint or views at least that partially align with them. Even those of us on the other side of the planet. As for your downvoters: plenty of people believe they should downvote when they simply disagree. Others believe that downvoting without a comment is fine. These two groups make HN less interesting. I actually want to know the reason why . Too many peop…

Not a downvoter, but I believe it is people taking exception to American exceptionism.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#264

Post by Jommi »

rs23296008n1 wrote: post #255
Jommi wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point only pertains in places with a poisonous legal system, such as US or UK.

As opposed to... where exactly? I'm sure I can point at legal systems across the globe that have examples of completely terrible injustice. Which legal system are you referring to that is significantly not "poisonous"? And why?

Try anywhere in Northern Europe

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#265

Post by ajuc »

papito wrote: post #28
Ididntdothis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often ask people who are complaining about their salary whether have asked for a raise. Most of the time the answer is “no” followed by reasons like “I am afraid to get fired” or “they will make my life miserable” or “they should just do the right thing”.

Exactly. 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. They are not going to offer it to you, normally, because they are not a charity. They want to give you the least amount of money that you will except. Secondly, who ever gets fired for asking for a raise? I mean, that is not normal. And if that does happen to you, it's most likely of some other underlying factors, where asking for a raise is just the last drop.

> 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. They are not going to offer it to you, normally, because they are not a charity. They want to give you the least amount of money that you will except.

It's not charity to pay people what they are worth, it's a good business strategy. Paying them the least they would accept is a sure way to have a high turnover and frustrated employees. Bad strategy. At least in a workers' market (so in IT for example).

Asking for a rise is awkward, many people have problems doing it, so they postpone it. In IT the expected salary growth is pretty fast, especially early in the career, and it's also the time when junior developers are the least used to negotiation with their bosses. So people are routinely underpaid until they talk with their friends and realize switching companies gives them automatic 10-15% rise and some new learning opportunities.

When you have a job applying for a new job is actually pretty stress-free, and it's a good idea to do this from time to time just to see what technologies are hot and what questions people are asking. Then you get offered 15% more than in your current job and a new project that always seems better than the project you're currently working on :)

So companies that don't give rises without being asked to - will have to deal with a high developer turnover and all the associated costs.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#266

Post by s_gourichon »

yellowapple wrote: post #242
smnrchrds wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is supposed to be an international forum, but in practice it is a local group for San Francisco Bay Area. Consider how often articles about housing issues in Bay Area make it to the front page, compared to Vancouver, London, and Tokyo. HN is international in the sense that anyone can access and participate in it. But in practice, mostly SF Bay Area residents do.

For those downvoting this comment: this conclusion (that HN's reader base is predominantly based in the SF Bay Area) should be entirely unsurprising given that HN is itself the product of Y Combinator, an accelerator based in the SF Bay Area that (last I checked, and from what I recall back when I worked for a startup that applied) specifically requires its incubatees to relocate (if they're not already there) to the…

> requires its incubatees to relocate (if they're not already there) to the SF Bay Area during said incubation.

Not sure "relocate" is the best word. I've been freelancer for 8 years and one of my client is a YC startup that is and has always been in Paris, France.

See https://www.ycombinator.com/atyc/ "We ask the founders of each startup we fund to move to the Bay Area for the duration of their cycle" and https://www.ycombinator.com/faq/#p3 "Of course, after the 3 month program, you can go wherever you want."

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#267

Post by 777d7_rr66444 »

james_s_tayler wrote: post #246
smnrchrds wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is supposed to be an international forum, but in practice it is a local group for San Francisco Bay Area. Consider how often articles about housing issues in Bay Area make it to the front page, compared to Vancouver, London, and Tokyo. HN is international in the sense that anyone can access and participate in it. But in practice, mostly SF Bay Area residents do.

I see participatants from all over the world here all the time. They usually qualify things with phrases like "where I'm from" or "in [insert country here]. It's only the Americans that think they're the center of the world. I used to watch this Japanese show "Why did you come to Japan?" where a camera crew hangs out at Narita Airport and ambushes unsuspecting foreigners with that question and try to tag along on the…

As an American expatriate I'm always shocked or bemused by the US-centric comments I get from family.

I live in East Asia, which is by no measure a cultural or technological backwater, and was surprised to hear my mother say, two days ago, "you must get YouTube over there...".

For some more perspective, I'm the most successful member of my family (from a financial pov) and from the condo I live in to the car I drive, I have nicer things than my parents ever did. I'm the first in the family -- and this is something I only considered just now -- to sends his kids to a good / expensive private school.

Though I don't lord it over them, my life is way more advanced / cushy than theirs. But from their point of view I'm not in the US and therefore don't have access to what they consider the gold standard of civilization.

And this point of view has not changed even though my parents have experienced my life in Asia first hand. Truly bizarre blind spot.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#268

Post by solatic »

papito wrote: post #19

The most common difference between us peasants and the people of means is that those other people ASK more often. Ask for more money, ask for a bonus, ask for lower rent. And then it adds up. The one thing that holds most of us back is shame. But shame is a good thing in general. It's the glue that keeps societies together, preventing them from spiraling down to the lowest common denominator. Questionable if this sti…

> The one thing that holds most of us back is shame.

This is condescending. If you ask, you have to be prepared for the other side saying no. Sometimes, the very act of asking can be construed as offensive and deteriorate relations, resulting in premature termination of either the negotiations or the relationship altogether.

It only makes sense to ask if you have leverage. You have leverage to ask for a raise if you can afford to be unemployed for a while while you look for new work. You have leverage to ask for a reduction in housing rent if the housing market is liquid enough that you are reasonably certain that you can find another place to live that offers you roughly the same utility per dollar that you are already paying.

By definition, people with means are more likely to have leverage than people without means. The question, often enough, is how to get people to realize the leverage they already have, or at least to come up with a strategy to develop leverage where they had none before.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#269

Post by solatic »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #150
angarg12 wrote: post #132

I don't own a business, but I have encountered these behaviours at a smaller scale. Now I think about this situation as a variation of the prisoners dilemma. If both parties play nice, each one gets a smaller payoff. If one is an asshole and the other is nice, the asshole gets a bigger payoff (by shafting the nice party). This article proposes that being nice is beneficial for all parties in the long term. That holds…

Sometimes I feel like humans do not understand that we're the prisoners and nature is the police. Nature does not care about killing us. The universe will feel no remorse if an asteroid kills us all or we do it ourselves with nukes. Corona doesn't feel shame. We're prisoners in so many ways. When are we going to start cooperating to try to escape our death sentence? Or are we content to fight each other over scraps w…

> Sometimes I feel like humans do not understand that we're the prisoners and nature is the police.

Understanding that cooperation provides higher benefit to players compared to competition requires prior education among the players. It is literally part of any Introduction to Economics course.

The problem is a) under-education b) irrational players.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#270

Post by Angostura »

nmfisher wrote: post #237
pc86 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this has been tried before and they typically end in one of three outcomes: 1) It was a mistake and it doesn't go to court. 2) It was intentional and it doesn't go to court because the attorney, while still being a piece of shit, understands what option 3 is. 3) It was intentional, it goes to court, and you produce the email evidence showing the attorney agreed to changeset N then sent along changeset N-1, and…

4) Contract gets unknowingly signed and shelved, OP moves jobs and his/her replacement assumes the signed contract is legitimate. Rare, but I've seen it happen. FWIW I completely agree with both you and OP - it's a totally boneheaded move, but you should never underestimate how boneheaded some people (lawyers in particular) can be.

5. Company who hired boneheaded lawyer, gets sick of them. Apologises for their lawyer and gets rid of the lawyer
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