Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak • Hacker News Board

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#31

Post by heliodor » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

dtech wrote: post #2

This seems like a sensible rule that leads to unwanted behavior in this unforeseen case. Would make sense to grant a temporary exemption.

Unforeseen? Only because the people who created this rule couldn't be bothered or allowed to spend a few extra minutes thinking of edge cases. This is just one example of many blunt rules and laws we have on the books. Maybe in 100 or 500 years we'll implement governance systems that can serve us better.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#32

Post by untog » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

jsjddbbwj wrote: post #17

gpvos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel is being burned, creating more CO2, without any benefit to society.

So if I have a corporation I have to benefit society with it? Else what, the government must expropriate my corporation from me?

Are you just mindlessly trolling here or do you have a point? Climate change is a thing that concerns people. Waste is a thing that concerns people. Is any of this surprising?

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#33

Post by bob33212 » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

everyone wrote: post #18

Covid 19 is a good opportunity for extremely sensible change. Lets all stop needlessly flying, lets all work from home (if your just doing an office job anyway), lets use local products and not stuff from half way across the world.

A decent percentage of people put food on the table and a roof over their head by doing a job we could classify as needless

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#34

Post by phkahler » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

Tangential question: is there a significant reduction in flights over the US? Is it my imagination or are we having more blue skies like the days after 9/11?

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#35

Post by qubex » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #20

noinsight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on the flip side, airlines could keep canceling flights on less popular routes when they're not at full capacity (i.e. not/less profitable). That would inconvenience passengers. Under this regulation they could lose that route to a competitor that is more willing to service customers (or can operate at a lower cost). EDIT: I found the EU page outlining the regulation here: https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes…

This rule says it's ok to squat on slots just as long as you burn fuel while you do it.

Yes — because such behaviour results in losses for the company and, if sufficiently extreme (i.e., pushing them to bankruptcy) is self-correcting (they leave the market and vacate the slots).

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#36

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

qubex wrote: post #35

chrisseaton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rule says it's ok to squat on slots just as long as you burn fuel while you do it.

Yes — because such behaviour results in losses for the company and, if sufficiently extreme (i.e., pushing them to bankruptcy) is self-correcting (they leave the market and vacate the slots).

Why not create a competitive market for slots, rather than incentivising people to literally burn fuel?

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#37

Post by qubex » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

egdod wrote: post #19

gpvos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel is being burned, creating more CO2, without any benefit to society.

If that’s a problem, maybe fuel should be more expensive.

The cost of oil has plummeted (which is worrying, but not unexpected, because it’s a leading indicator of economic health and the consensus seems to be that we’re six months away from the next global recession anyway).

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#38

Post by jsjddbbwj » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #32

jsjddbbwj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I have a corporation I have to benefit society with it? Else what, the government must expropriate my corporation from me?

Are you just mindlessly trolling here or do you have a point? Climate change is a thing that concerns people. Waste is a thing that concerns people. Is any of this surprising?

Do those two things concern people as much as you think? I don't see it as a major issue people vote on.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#39

Post by ipnon » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

hrdwdmrbl wrote: post #8

A non-original idea is to create a market for landing slots.

Who else proposed this idea?

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#40

Post by markbaikal » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #14

hrdwdmrbl wrote: post #8

A non-original idea is to create a market for landing slots.

Create? They're already auctioned off and traded freely.

They are currently auctioned almost nowhere. Instead, they are permanently owned by incumbent airlines who never paid for them. Additionally, incumbent airlines lobby against slot auctions, see e. g. https://airlines.iata.org/analysis/the-dangers-of-slot-aucti...

The fact that slots are not available to newcomers is a valuable moat for incumbents.