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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#231

Post by kelnos »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #223
ta1234567890 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As user volkk said, unfortunately it would be legally risky for me to disclose the identity of the investor. Which is pretty frustrating, because then you realize that when someone does something bad to you (legally/morally), there are very few (legal) ways to remedy it, especially if they have a lot more money than you. I can say that he's not based in the Bay Area, so if you are raising money there it is very unlik…

> even offered to buy out the other guy Why didn't this happen? That seems like an obvious outcome of the situation, unless losing the big client is enough to effectively destroy the company.

From the tone of OP's story, it seems like the other guy probably wouldn't've agreed to the buyout; seems like he had an axe to grind.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#232

Post by unnouinceput »

ta1234567890 wrote: post #163
JackFr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way put this is that he lent you money to build your company and then paid you money every month as a customer. When the note came due, you couldn't pay. One possibility that they cancelled their contract not to screw you, but because they felt you were not getting the job done and the future wasn't there for your company. Given that, it would make little sense to extend the note or continue the contract. As…

You are right. There are always multiple sides and stories for the same situation. It is perfectly possible that it could be that way, and I wish it was that way because then it would only be a money issue, which could (in theory) be rationally resolved. Things that somehow contradict that, is how unwilling to resolve the issue the investor has been. The company was profitable at the time he ended his contract and ca…

Ohh, if he was actively looking for a loss then he might've been on the hook with some bad people who were lending him the money and he was laundering them. You see, laundering is all about loss and looking bleak in the eyes of IRS (or equivalent). In the end he might not been an active asshole but just another victim.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#233

Post by fred_is_fred »

chrisbennet wrote: post #178

I had a clients contract that had this in it: "Recover any and all actual, incidental and consequential damages to XYZ, including but not limited to actual or estimated loss of profits and sales and costs to cover, attorney’s fees and costs.." I wrote back: "Nice try but yeah, no. ;-) " (My lawyer fixed all these overreaches and they were a great client.) As an aside my lawyer told me that when you a drafting a contr…

If you are replying to clients like that then I am glad you have a lawyer.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#234

Post by itwy »

mewse wrote: post #211
itwy wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a native speaker but shouldn't grizzly above be grizzled? :)

If you go by the dictionary, "grizzled" and "grizzly" both have the same meaning; having grey hair. In common use, though, "grizzled" is generally used to imply "old" or even "unkempt", and "grizzly" is generally used to imply "bad-tempered" (probably alluding to the behaviour of the "grizzly bear") ..in this case, according to the story, either word would apply!

Got it, thanks.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#235

Post by wolco »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #51
gameswithgo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once word gets around though, it starts to harm you in the long run. I worked for a company where one of the owners seemed to have a world view that everyone is trying to screw you over, so you better screw them over first. After I left I had a friend ask about the company, because they were about to a deal with them. I gave my honest opinion and suggested they be sure to get any money up front and be very careful to…

I am not so sure about that. When I was consultant I had several clients that were a complete pain to deal with but they also had a lot of money to spend so it was worth it in the end. When I read business biographies I get the impression that a lot of successful people/companies like Gates, Jobs, Ellison or Walmart are really hard to do business with. They will exploit you as soon as you make the slightest mistake b…

I would advise never to do business with Walmart, Apple, Microsoft as a small business. They have so much leverage over you, mistake or not things are out of your control from the start. The more work you do for them the more they take over the rest of your business. Get bigger then talk.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#236

Post by smnrchrds »

jeremyvisser wrote: post #208
thomk wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil lawsuits come down to just one thing in this country: MONEY. Not the law, not what is right or who has been virtuous. Just money. Or more specifically: who has the money. If you are poor and you sue someone who is rich, they control that outcome. If you are rich and you sue someone who is poor, they (by default) control that outcome; there's nothing there. If you are both poor, a judge will often decide based w…

Considering you're commenting in an international forum, what is "this country"?

It is supposed to be an international forum, but in practice it is a local group for San Francisco Bay Area. Consider how often articles about housing issues in Bay Area make it to the front page, compared to Vancouver, London, and Tokyo. HN is international in the sense that anyone can access and participate in it. But in practice, mostly SF Bay Area residents do.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#237

Post by nmfisher »

pc86 wrote: post #58
seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

Except this has been tried before and they typically end in one of three outcomes: 1) It was a mistake and it doesn't go to court. 2) It was intentional and it doesn't go to court because the attorney, while still being a piece of shit, understands what option 3 is. 3) It was intentional, it goes to court, and you produce the email evidence showing the attorney agreed to changeset N then sent along changeset N-1, and…

4) Contract gets unknowingly signed and shelved, OP moves jobs and his/her replacement assumes the signed contract is legitimate.

Rare, but I've seen it happen.

FWIW I completely agree with both you and OP - it's a totally boneheaded move, but you should never underestimate how boneheaded some people (lawyers in particular) can be.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#238

Post by airstrike »

izacus wrote: post #179
airstrike wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I guess Americans think that's fine because "it's just business". That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation.

I wouldn't word it like this if it wouldn't be a very noticable pattern of behaviour comming pretty much only from US customers. Negotiations with customers from other cultures have been significantly more honest - it doesn't mean they weren't seeking an advantage, but this agreesive backstabing from legal departments right after signing up the customer was something that was very very US American. After seeing it fi…

> I wouldn't word it like this if it wouldn't be a very noticable pattern of behaviour comming pretty much only from US customers.

But that's the thing... do you have access to a representative, uniform, random sample of US customers? Do you have a similar sample of customers from other regions to compare against? Are those samples based on your actual data rather than personal anecdotes? Have you eliminated hidden variables that could better explain this behavior than simply the place they are from?

If you answered "no" to any of the above, you're suffering from availability bias.

> After seeing it first-hand, I'm noticing this attitude even in fields like global politics, where burning goodwill to gain very minor advantages seems to be the policy these days.

And that one is called confirmation bias.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#240

Post by nmfisher »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #26
seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

> It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

For lawyers, at least, this might work...once. The second time they try it, you know there'll be no "give" in "give-and-take", so you're not afraid of going in for trench warfare. If they're assholes through-and-through, it's not unheard of for party B to ask party A to switch lawyers.

It's an excessively short-term view of "winning", and it doesn't benefit anybody in the long run.

Source: former corporate lawyer.

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