Not being an asshole will make you more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#201

Post by graeme » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 11:26 PM UTC

ta1234567890 wrote: post #125

AnatolyPetrova wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did this backfire for this CEO? I assume that he never got the full amount of the note back but he possibly could have if he extended the note.

You are correct. He most likely would have gotten his money back, even without renewing the note, had he accepted a payment plan. Instead, he chose to start a (very costly) legal fight. So far he's probably out $100k+ in legal fees and looking to spend $100-200k more in the new personal lawsuit. The original note was for $250k. I don't think he's ever going to recover the full amount of money he's put into this (not…

This actually seems to support the article’s thesis then: doing business with an asshole hurt you, but being an asshole didn’t help the asshole. It cost him money, attention, and precious irreplaceable time.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#202

Post by dntbnmpls » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 11:46 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Most of the billionaires are assholes and/or criminals with a couple of noteworthy exceptions. So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle but it won't get you all the way to the top of the foodchain. So this is solid advice, but unfortunately the role models are exactly those people that didn't follow this sort of advice. Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Apple, Google and Facebook all would not have bee…

Yep, Rockefeller, Ford, etc were notorious assholes. So was Jobs, Gates, Ellison, Zuckerburg, etc. By all accounts, Trump is also an asshole and he is a billionaire and POTUS.

> So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle

Not convinced of this either. You can't get away with being the type of assholes the billionaires are, but you still have to be a bit of an asshole to move up in the middle.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#203

Post by meddlepal » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #198

seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

I don't think this trick works. Also if he was a lawyer wouldn't this get him disbarred? Any chance it was just a screwup?

Not a lawyer, but have family that are: according to them it's really really hard to get disbarred. Permanent disbarment is basically reserved for stealing client money. Everything else is forgivable.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#204

Post by solaris00 » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:07 AM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #168

meritt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by backing out all of our changes and only putting in his changes That so feels like a mistake because that's the sort of tactic that would completely and utterly remove their capability of ever working as a corporate lawyer ever again for any company. If that genuinely happened, that lawyer needs to be disbarred, but that's a pretty damn egregious accusation.

> That so feels like a mistake... Easy to test. 1. Send back the document he sent with a copy of your most recent edits and ask him to confirm if his document is correct. 2. But, make note of at ONE error, and see if he fixes all of them. 3. If he only fixes only the one, then he's either really lazy or trying to keep up the deceit. 4. Repeat steps 1 to 3, be sure to CC everyone involved. If he's lazy he will be asha…

Why the indirectness? Is there a downside to directly confronting the lawyer?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#205

Post by itwy » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:07 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #102

Kinda off topic but other side of the coin, befriending the asshole: At my first job there was this grizzly old engineer who was known for being pretty surly, but knew the code base almost as if by memory, and the behavior of the code. He was bothered by anything and everything and really just wanted to run out the clock and go home and work in his wood shop. I was in support and nobody wanted to go to him for help,…

Not a native speaker but shouldn't grizzly above be grizzled? :)

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#206

Post by jkaplowitz » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:16 AM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #58

seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

Except this has been tried before and they typically end in one of three outcomes: 1) It was a mistake and it doesn't go to court. 2) It was intentional and it doesn't go to court because the attorney, while still being a piece of shit, understands what option 3 is. 3) It was intentional, it goes to court, and you produce the email evidence showing the attorney agreed to changeset N then sent along changeset N-1, and…

Do those outcomes hold up if the innocent party caught the mistaken/bad-faith change before signing and knowingly proceeded to sign anyway?

Everything you said makes sense if it goes unnoticed until after signing, but I'm less sure about that scenario. Probably varies by jurisdiction, at least when both parties are well-resourced and sophisticated.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#207

Post by nerdponx » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:17 AM UTC

Jommi wrote: post #138

listsfrin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* if you have the money and the people prepared for 3)

This point only pertains in places with a poisonous legal system, such as US or UK.

Serious question: is there a legal system that works better in these kinds of cases?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#208

Post by jeremyvisser » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:22 AM UTC

thomk wrote: post #164

listsfrin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* if you have the money and the people prepared for 3)

Civil lawsuits come down to just one thing in this country: MONEY. Not the law, not what is right or who has been virtuous. Just money. Or more specifically: who has the money. If you are poor and you sue someone who is rich, they control that outcome. If you are rich and you sue someone who is poor, they (by default) control that outcome; there's nothing there. If you are both poor, a judge will often decide based w…

Considering you're commenting in an international forum, what is "this country"?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#209

Post by airstrike » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:30 AM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #188

airstrike wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced. It's a gross generalization. Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America?

> Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced. Correct, but it does provide an insider's opinion. > It's a gross generalization. It is. > Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America? It isn't. I've noticed that Chinese companies are even worse.

> It isn't. I've noticed that Chinese companies are even worse.

Then it isn't "standard American bullshit". It's just "standard bullshit".

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#210

Post by cosmiccatnap » Sat, Mar 07, 2020, 12:33 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #96

papito wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. They are not going to offer it to you, normally, because they are not a charity. They want to give you the least amount of money that you will except. Secondly, who ever gets fired for asking for a raise? I mean, that is not normal. And if that does happen to you, it's most likely of some other underlying factors, where asking for a raise is just the last drop.

> Exactly. 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. I don't know - man. I've worked at a lot of places and this doesn't seem to be a common thing. It could be I've just worked at a lot of bad places but still. Asking for more isn't enough. It has to be the threat of leaving in order to get them to give more. At which point - the advice now for managers is, if they're threatening to leave unless you pay more the…

Every manager I've ever had I've ask for a raise and everyone of them have given me the option to show up Monday or find a new job. This is fanciful thinking in a priviledged industry and doesn't represent most employment relationships.