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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#181

Post by koheripbal »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #154
koheripbal wrote: post #12

The major flaw in this article is that it does not defined what constitutes "asshole" behavior. There is a difference, for example, between being vindictive towards others, and simply pushing people out of their comfort zone. The term "asshole" is so vague that it borders on useless.

In the context of business, I would frame being an asshole as doing things that benefit yourself at the expense of others. Not being an asshole is doing things that benefit yourself and others. Let's say you sell some Saas tool. You're an asshole if you try to sell to anyone even if you think it won't help them. You're not an asshole if you truly believe your service will benefit your customers. You're an idiot if yo…

What if they are acting in the interests of the company? Is that "others" or "themselves"?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#182

Post by koheripbal »

illumanaughty wrote: post #74
commandlinefan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you could come up with a good definition, it would still be a silly assertion. He’s wrong: not being an asshole won’t make you more money. Being an asshole will also not make you more money. How nice or not nice you are to other people is almost entirely unrelated to how much money you make.

It's not a silly assertion, it's just that you've taken silly things away from this article. He's asserting that if you're too self interested / lack empathy you will hurt yourself in the long run.

You just re-defined asshole in a way that suits your argument.

The article doesn't define it that way.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#183

Post by sdinsn »

papito wrote: post #28
Ididntdothis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often ask people who are complaining about their salary whether have asked for a raise. Most of the time the answer is “no” followed by reasons like “I am afraid to get fired” or “they will make my life miserable” or “they should just do the right thing”.

Exactly. 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. They are not going to offer it to you, normally, because they are not a charity. They want to give you the least amount of money that you will except. Secondly, who ever gets fired for asking for a raise? I mean, that is not normal. And if that does happen to you, it's most likely of some other underlying factors, where asking for a raise is just the last drop.

> 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money

Perhaps in the tech industry where there is a lower supply of workers, but not everywhere. Plenty of managers will say no because they know you can be quickly replaced.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#184

Post by eloff »

commandlinefan wrote: post #56
koheripbal wrote: post #12

The major flaw in this article is that it does not defined what constitutes "asshole" behavior. There is a difference, for example, between being vindictive towards others, and simply pushing people out of their comfort zone. The term "asshole" is so vague that it borders on useless.

Even if you could come up with a good definition, it would still be a silly assertion. He’s wrong: not being an asshole won’t make you more money. Being an asshole will also not make you more money. How nice or not nice you are to other people is almost entirely unrelated to how much money you make.

I suggest you look up game theory. Not being an asshole is actually the winning strategy over the long term.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#185

Post by Nrbelex »

jandrese wrote: post #160
Nrbelex wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you're sure, did you report this to the relevant disciplinary body?

What, the bar association? Sleezy as this is you wouldn't be able to show damages since you didn't sign the contract. The other lawyer can claim error and the burden of proof would be on you. If you did accept, then you have a lengthy court battle ahead where a jury could very well rule "abide by the contract you signed you reneging moocher." The real world isn't a school playground. Calling a teacher over is time co…

ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 8.4: Misconduct: "It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to: [...] (c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation..."

[https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili...]

If it really was intentional, this very clearly meets the standard, and there's absolutely no requirement that there be damages for the lawyer to be disciplined. I'm not talking about a fraud or malpractice claim, so there's no reason this would involve a lengthy court battle, etc.

Further, Rule 8.3: "(a) A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects, shall inform the appropriate professional authority."

[https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili...]

Seems to fit as well if the behavior was repeated.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#186

Post by jandrese »

Nrbelex wrote: post #185
jandrese wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, the bar association? Sleezy as this is you wouldn't be able to show damages since you didn't sign the contract. The other lawyer can claim error and the burden of proof would be on you. If you did accept, then you have a lengthy court battle ahead where a jury could very well rule "abide by the contract you signed you reneging moocher." The real world isn't a school playground. Calling a teacher over is time co…

ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 8.4: Misconduct: "It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to: [...] (c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation..." [ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... ] If it really was intentional, this very clearly meets the standard, and there's absolutely no requirement that there be damages for the lawyer to be dis…

But on the same site:

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili...

> The ABA is not a lawyer disciplinary agency and has no authority to investigate or act upon complaints filed against lawyers. Each state has its own agency that performs that function in regard to lawyers practicing in that state. Locate your state agency from the Directory of State Disciplinary Agencies.

So you're not dealing with the ABA, but the underfunded and understaffed state board.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#187

Post by Nrbelex »

jandrese wrote: post #186
Nrbelex wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 8.4: Misconduct: "It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to: [...] (c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation..." [ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... ] If it really was intentional, this very clearly meets the standard, and there's absolutely no requirement that there be damages for the lawyer to be dis…

But on the same site: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... > The ABA is not a lawyer disciplinary agency and has no authority to investigate or act upon complaints filed against lawyers. Each state has its own agency that performs that function in regard to lawyers practicing in that state. Locate your state agency from the Directory of State Disciplinary Agencies. So you're not dealing wit…

Of course you're dealing with your local licensing authority, but they'll all have a rule substantially the same as the model rule cited.

California's state bar even has a formal opinion calling out this or similar behavior:

"Had Seller’s Attorney intentionally created a defective “redline” to surreptitiously conceal the change to the covenant not to compete, his conduct would constitute deceit, active concealment and possibly fraud, in violation of Seller’s Attorney’s ethical obligations."

[https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/documents/ethics/Opinion...]

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#188

Post by inetknght »

airstrike wrote: post #158
inetknght wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation. I am an American citizen so you can take it from an American citizen instead. Companies have zero scruples whatsoever about screwing over others in business.

Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced. It's a gross generalization. Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America?

> Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced.

Correct, but it does provide an insider's opinion.

> It's a gross generalization.

It is.

> Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America?

It isn't. I've noticed that Chinese companies are even worse.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#189

Post by filoleg »

throwaway55554 wrote: post #52
BigBubbleButt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 9 out of the top 10 American billionaires are self-made. It's amazing how you can use the same data to argue the opposite point, just on how you frame it.

> And 9 out of the top 10 American billionaires are self-made. Is there really such a thing as self-made? I honestly don't believe so. Otherwise, I think more people would do it.

Disagreed. Simply said, not everyone has the chops to do it, not even mentioning luck. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have a demand/supply graph for software engineers in the US so screwed up, given how much pay one can get and how few credentials are required for it, especially compared to other similarly paying jobs.

Not saying that those situations are perfectly comparable at all, just trying to make a point that "if it was so good and easy, why isn't everyone successfully doing it" isn't really a solid argument for this.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#190

Post by jschwartzi »

miguelmota wrote: post #115
jschwartzi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about being nice, not being an asshole. Assholes are people who come in and shit all over everything instead of trying to play fair. People who are not nice can be fair. Take as an analogy the difference between social class and economic class, and how people can have a social class that's different from their economic class.

Being apathetic and selfish are some attributes that both assholes and top billionaires exhibit. I'd say it’s not so black and white and people will perceive what being nice means to them differently depending on their social economic status since people of lower economic status tend to be more susceptible to emotions than a business person.

Yeah, I was trying to use social and economic class as a metaphor for asshole versus not-nice. Because it's easy to conflate the two in both cases.
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